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What do you think about errata text in the Glossary?

Yes, I actively want errata in the Glossary.
4
19%
No, I actively oppose errata in the Glossary.
8
38%
Meh, I do not particularly care.
9
43%
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#585080
Back in the old days, the Glossary included all errata (or, as Decipher called it, "revised texts"). In fact, since cards were rarely reprinted and there were no virtual cards, the Glossary was often the only place where errata could be found. It looked like this:

Image

Eventually, due to the development of the virtual errata file and, later, the errata master changelog and the errata database, these Glossary inserts were removed. (The original idea was to move the errata to a separate appendix, but this didn't happen for several years, when @jrch completed the curent changelog.)

Now it seems like things might be swinging the other direction again. Collectors often want to play with their physical cards, not with slightly-updated printouts. But TMP Remastered included several dozen errata, nearly all of them minor, but many of them affecting some of collectors' most valuable cards. Rules has been more proactive about issuing "clarifying errata" (like Decipher used to do occasionally) which clarify how a card works without changing its function.

I don't expect this trend to stop, and I get little sense that the community wants it to. Yet collectors will still want to play with their physical dang cards. (I know I do!)

One possible way of helping to accommodate that is to put errata text back in the Glossary. That way, you can play your physical copies, but anyone armed with a Glossary can flip through and find any updated text (should the question arise during a game) without having to go to the card database or scroll through the virtual errata file. Maintenance would not be a concern, because we would set it up to automatically update when the database notices new errata.

On the other hand, putting errata back in the Glossary would mean a lot more words in the Glossary, and it might be better to just promote the errata changelog more heavily as the separate repository of text-based errata. We could encourage T.D.'s to print that document out, and maybe link to it from Glossary entries.

The Rules Committee was tepid about putting errata back in the Glossary, I'm a bit tepid myself, and don't particularly want to write the computer code for it unless there's real demand for it. What do you think?
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#585083
No errata in the glossary. The shorter it is the easier it will be to load and find what you are looking for in a timed game. I'd rather see a link on CC to a page with just errata.

I think the rule should be you have to play with a virtual card for a FUNCTIONAL errata. I don't care if you use Lawaxana Troi with the wrong spelling but if you are using Defend Homeworld you should have to use the accurate up to date card.
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#585084
Mixed.

I am not, personally, someone that is particularly in favor of a smaller glossary for smaller's sake, however, the amount of Errata is only going to grow, especially as the CC continues to do clarifying errata. (Which I see as a good thing, for the record.)

What is the purpose of the glossary? Is it to be a rules+glossory = everything, one stop? Or is it one tool among a tool chest?

With smart phones being a thing now, compared to years past, access is (literally) at everyone's fingertips. I think a list of errata like we have now is good.

__________

Personally, in a more perfect world (and assuming infinite time, etc) I would adore if ,ore rulings and such were collected on individual card pages. For example, in MtG on release, new cards often have rulings clarifying corner cases, and those are also displayed on the cards gatherer page:

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card ... eid=502701

Having more rulings about corner cases and having them displayed on the card pages might get people used to checking the card pages more and getting used to errata.
 
By Winner of Borg (Stefan Slaby)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
1E European Continental Champion 2023
1E Austrian National Champion 2023
2E Austrian National Champion 2022
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2E Borg Region Regional Champion 2023
#585111
there should be a text document listing all errata (the actual changes, not just the titles). i don't particularly care whether it's in the glossary, or a separate file.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#585135
Thanks to all who've voted. Seems clear that we should not do this in the Glossary, which is very useful to know! Thanks! (Also: saves me work, always a win.)
Winner of Borg wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:58 am there should be a text document listing all errata (the actual changes, not just the titles). i don't particularly care whether it's in the glossary, or a separate file.
This is what pops into my head when I hear "text document listing all errata":

https://www.trekcc.org/1e/1e_errata.pdf

Does that document meet your needs? Is there anything you need that is missing or off?

If so, I will work on getting that file better integrated and more visible. Aside from adding more links to it in various places, I'll probably try to work with @jrch5618 to generate an HTML version that I can then include in the Compendium (and automate its generation as much as possible).
 
By Winner of Borg (Stefan Slaby)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
1E European Continental Champion 2023
1E Austrian National Champion 2023
2E Austrian National Champion 2022
1E Borg Region Regional Champion 2023
2E Borg Region Regional Champion 2023
#585157
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:08 pmThis is what pops into my head when I hear "text document listing all errata":

https://www.trekcc.org/1e/1e_errata.pdf

Does that document meet your needs? Is there anything you need that is missing or off?
good to know that this exists... but this looks just like a printout of the full errata db, with a lot of information that is very interesting, but irrelevant to the game.

the main point of such a document would be to have something you can print frequently, and carry with your rules documents. but this document currently has 84 pages, covering only 5-6 cards per page... for information that's relevant during a game, that's an even lower information density than what you'd get just by printing the card images. compare that to the (currently unmaintained) 2E errata document. that document covers about 40 cards per page, even though 2E has, on average, longer gametexts.

the main differences:

- the print version should omit most information that is irrelevant to the game, such as the original text, reason behind the errata, date of the errata, errata history, alternative printings, ...
(some of this extra information might still be useful, for example highlighting recent changes, or distinguishing between functional changes and errata that are only cosmetic / fixing typos. but such information should only be included in a way that doesn't cost extra space in the document, e.g. you could use red titles for recent changes, or greyed-out text for cosmetic errata?)

- the print version should generally use a denser layout without tables, and most likely with 2-3 columns of text. (columns make small paragraphs easier to read, and make headings take up less space.)

- not strictly necessary, but using only one level of sorting (titles) instead of the standard way (card type, affiliation, title) should make searching for an individual entry a bit quicker.
(also: have errata ever changed a card's type or affiliation? such changes could make an entry harder to locate in the standard sorting.)

i'd estimate with such changes it should be possible to generate a document of less than 10 pages?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#585223
Okay, thanks! That is helpful, especially the example of the 2E errata file (which I quite forgot existed).

It is, unfortunately, not quite as easy as that. The errata database does not have the detailed changes to each card. Actually, it doesn't have most of that information. The database just has card title, date, reason, and significance. All the other information was all typed up and formatted by hand by the good offices of @jrch5618.

I could write a file that would just automatically print the gametext of every card with errata. I could do the (good) suggestion you had where non-functional errata get grayed out. And that would be pretty good! But it would be useless for cards where other features besides gametext (lore, title, classification) were changed. So I'll have to figure out how to get the DB to include that data. Then I can write a script to produce an errata file along the lines of what you'd like to see.

(And I know you're still waiting on "recently changed" flags to show up in the Glossary from your request last year. Technical difficulties, though I may be close.)

Does 2E just manually maintain their text errata file? If so, I'm impressed. Keeping the 1E errata ducks in a row is a surprisingly annoying amount of work already, even without a text file to maintain.
 
By Winner of Borg (Stefan Slaby)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
1E European Continental Champion 2023
1E Austrian National Champion 2023
2E Austrian National Champion 2022
1E Borg Region Regional Champion 2023
2E Borg Region Regional Champion 2023
#585236
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:24 pmDoes 2E just manually maintain their text errata file? If so, I'm impressed. Keeping the 1E errata ducks in a row is a surprisingly annoying amount of work already, even without a text file to maintain.
yes, this file has been maintained manually so far (though not always in time, and there are discussions to have it generated automatically at some point).
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#585744
Along these lines?

https://www.trekcc.org/1e/print_errata_sheet.php

Kinda want to get dates and icons in there before making it official, but you get the idea there.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#585771
boromirofborg wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:28 am I like that, but the grey might be a little hard to read.
Agreed, also if you are going to have different colored texts, you should place a legend at least at the top of the document, (perhaps the bottom too) that explains why some is black and some is grey. I shouldn't have to read an example of each to determine why they are colored differently.
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
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1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#585773
Professor Scott wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:33 am
boromirofborg wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:28 am I like that, but the grey might be a little hard to read.
Agreed, also if you are going to have different colored texts, you should place a legend at least at the top of the document, (perhaps the bottom too) that explains why some is black and some is grey. I shouldn't have to read an example of each to determine why they are colored differently.
I thought that too, then looked again and it does say at the beginning why some are grey.

On the plus side, if both of us missed that, maybe it needs to be clearer.
This document is automatically generated from the Errata Database. Gray entries represent errata that had no gameplay impact, usually typos or clarifications.
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By patrick (Patrick Weijers)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#585774
Is it possible to detect if an entry won't fit in the current column, and then move it to the next column entirely? (The "property: DS9" as the first line of the second column is a bit weird. Would be nicer of "AKOREM LAAN" was on the second column there as well.)
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#585776
Ok, I see it now. I am old school though meaning if you define the grey, should should define the black as opposed to implying that the black being not grey implies that it has gameplay impact. Yes, the fact that this is a game and that it is an errata naturally implies this as well. How about:

Black entries are gameplay impacting, and grey (insert grey coloring) are non-gameplay impacting, usually typos or clarifications.
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