This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
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By aabecame
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#588770
Since The Final Frountier's goal was allowing [OS] decks to be playable on the spaceline, With it's ban does this mean we will be expecting some new locations soon so all of [OS] won't be stuck with only 2 or 3 places to play from?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#588773
aabecame wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:52 pm Since The Final Frountier's goal was allowing [OS] decks to be playable on the spaceline, With it's ban does this mean we will be expecting some new locations soon so all of [OS] won't be stuck with only 2 or 3 places to play from?
I'm guessing it's more likely that we'll see a toned-down TFF that still lets you play [OS] people to the space line, but won't be quite as good as it currently is.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#588776
Armus wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:04 pm
aabecame wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:52 pm Since The Final Frontier's goal was allowing [OS] decks to be playable on the spaceline, With it's ban does this mean we will be expecting some new locations soon so all of [OS] won't be stuck with only 2 or 3 places to play from?
I'm guessing it's more likely that we'll see a toned-down TFF that still lets you play [OS] people to the space line, but won't be quite as good as it currently is.
My quick fix is to get rid of the ship download, but I'm not on Balance, so have no say in that decision.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#588800
I'd get rid of the text " OR [1E-AU] [NA] [OS] personnel". You want [NA] supplements, you pay full freight for them just like [1E-TNG] and [1E-DS9].

AND/OR

I'd cut the ship download.

The key point is: TFF was never intended to supplant Sherman's Peak. TFF was intended to be a somewhat different, somewhat worse Sherman's Peak that some people would enjoy using because it's accessible and easy -- but the fact that people stopped using Sherman's Peak after it came out was a clear design failure.

(Now, the question I'm interested in learning the answer to in coming months is: is [OS] still top-of-the-heap with Sherman's Peak? If so, is it at least weaker? Or is the real problem with OS elsewhere -- say, on To Boldly Go?)
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By Enabran
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E Austrian National Second Runner-Up 2022
#588803
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:00 am The key point is: TFF was never intended to supplant Sherman's Peak. TFF was intended to be a somewhat different, somewhat worse Sherman's Peak that some people would enjoy using because it's accessible and easy -- but the fact that people stopped using Sherman's Peak after it came out was a clear design failure.
That's not true. A look at Sherman's Peak will show you, that it was still played and 3 of those decks won the tournament.
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E World Runner-Up 2023
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2023
#588807
What about the 2 unrestricted free plays.

Every other report card in the game either has one free report, or a restriction on its reporting. If it has two reports, at least one should have a restriction.
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By Exon
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E Risa Regional Champion 2023
#588857
[OS] was good before The Cage. I expect it would still be good in the interim, just not as overwhelming.

The Final Frontier is so inexplicably under-costed for what it does that I can't imagine it wasn't at least part of the problem.

Try to set up a first-turn unique ship and two unrestricted free plays of high-quality personnel, at a location of your choice, for any other era/affiliation/faction. How many seed cards does it take? More than one!

Rewrite The Final Frontier, as it is, to reference any other group in the game and it would probably make their existing play engines obsolete too.

TFF should be one free play, possibly universal or some other condition; no ship, no second report.

There aren't any affiliation-specific reporting engines for [OS]. With TFF brought in line, fill in the gap with something more interesting.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#588861
Exon wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:02 am Try to set up a first-turn unique ship and two unrestricted free plays of high-quality personnel, at a location of your choice, for any other era/affiliation/faction. How many seed cards does it take? More than one!

Best I can do is [SF] ... 22Earth/MACO + Protect the Timeline + Defend Homeworld + Forrest + [DL] Enterprise. You get a few card draws splashed in too but that's still 3 seed cards. Though Technically TFF is 2... you need the AU door or equivalent to make it go.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#588862
KCA is really close, you just need the RC card and the emblem (which is free on a mission) to get everything you need. (But there is a reason it is one of the few decks that can run with TOS)
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#588863
pfti wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:15 am KCA is really close, you just need the RC card and the emblem (which is free on a mission) to get everything you need. (But there is a reason it is one of the few decks that can run with TOS)
Counterpoint: Top tier KCA also runs They Call Themselves the Maquis to get another free play and more skill-dense personnel. Straight KCA has a harder time keeping up the pace with either Maquis-Enhanced KCA or TOS.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#588866
Armus wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:36 am
pfti wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:15 am KCA is really close, you just need the RC card and the emblem (which is free on a mission) to get everything you need. (But there is a reason it is one of the few decks that can run with TOS)
Counterpoint: Top tier KCA also runs They Call Themselves the Maquis to get another free play and more skill-dense personnel. Straight KCA has a harder time keeping up the pace with either Maquis-Enhanced KCA or TOS.
I agree TOS is objectively better. But KCA is close to being a 1 seed card start-up.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#588868
Enabran wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:25 am
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:00 am The key point is: TFF was never intended to supplant Sherman's Peak. TFF was intended to be a somewhat different, somewhat worse Sherman's Peak that some people would enjoy using because it's accessible and easy -- but the fact that people stopped using Sherman's Peak after it came out was a clear design failure.
That's not true. A look at Sherman's Peak will show you, that it was still played and 3 of those decks won the tournament.
Since The Final Frontier was released, it has been in 124 published decks. During that same timeframe, Sherman's Peak has been in only 13 published decks -- and some of those weren't true Sherman's Peak decks, but Hero of the Empire decks that only used the Peak incidentally.

Although it's good that Sherman's Peak was not totally wiped out by TFF, I think TFF sucking up over 90% of [OS] decks in the game still missed the design goal by a long shot.
Counterpoint: Top tier KCA also runs They Call Themselves the Maquis to get another free play and more skill-dense personnel. Straight KCA has a harder time keeping up the pace with either Maquis-Enhanced KCA or TOS.
I secretly really want KCA to get overpowered so we can fix the region rule. Can't do it right now because it would break the TCTTM trick, and it would look like we're picking on a Tier-2 deck.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#588869
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:08 pm
Enabran wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:25 am
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:00 am The key point is: TFF was never intended to supplant Sherman's Peak. TFF was intended to be a somewhat different, somewhat worse Sherman's Peak that some people would enjoy using because it's accessible and easy -- but the fact that people stopped using Sherman's Peak after it came out was a clear design failure.
That's not true. A look at Sherman's Peak will show you, that it was still played and 3 of those decks won the tournament.
Since The Final Frontier was released, it has been in 124 published decks. During that same timeframe, Sherman's Peak has been in only 13 published decks -- and some of those weren't true Sherman's Peak decks, but Hero of the Empire decks that only used the Peak incidentally.

Although it's good that Sherman's Peak was not totally wiped out by TFF, I think TFF sucking up over 90% of [OS] decks in the game still missed the design goal by a long shot.
Counterpoint: Top tier KCA also runs They Call Themselves the Maquis to get another free play and more skill-dense personnel. Straight KCA has a harder time keeping up the pace with either Maquis-Enhanced KCA or TOS.
I secretly really want KCA to get overpowered so we can fix the region rule. Can't do it right now because it would break the TCTTM trick, and it would look like we're picking on a Tier-2 deck.
KCA Just won Worlds and has been a contender for years.

It's a lot of things, but "Tier 2 deck" isn't one of them.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#588878
Fix the region rule now!
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#588886
pfti wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:30 pm Fix the region rule now!
Did I miss something? What needs to be fixed now? You can no longer insert locations into regions, with the exception of Bajoran Wormhole.
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