This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
User avatar
First Edition Creative Manager
By KazonPADD (Paddy Tye)
 - First Edition Creative Manager
 -  
1E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
#590713
Happy Friday All! Hope you’re all enjoying the festive period and getting to spend time with loved ones and hopefully getting a few games of 1E in!

With the start of a new year, we often all make resolutions for things we intend to do this coming year… go to the gym say, cut back on certain things etc.

One thing we’d like players to consider this coming year is volunteering to do some Playtesting for 1E. Playtesting is the lifeblood of game development so that we can issue new sets or errata. Without Playtesting, you get no new toys!

So our question today is what can we do to make Playtesting easier for you? What obstacles can we remove? How can we make it easier for players to volunteer?

In my case, it was finding a regular time when me and Lofty (my Playtesting buddy) could regularly meet up to play.

Don’t forget if you would like to volunteer to help Playtest new cards, please drop Orbin a message on here! There are also rewards for testing - help get your hands on some of those borderless promos, playmats etc.
User avatar
Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#590722
I think for me, the biggest hangup is time to build decks. As I mentioned in my most recent game broadcast with @LORE (#shamelessplug), I netdeck frequently for 1E because a) I'm still learning cards and b) it takes me days to build my own decks from the ground up.

I can playtest for 2E because I have hundreds of decks, and can modify old ones relatively easily to playtest new cards. Or, if I don't have a deck, it's not that hard for me to build a new one in a couple of hours.
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#590754
For me, its pretty simple...im not that good. I see some of the deck ideas you wizards come up with and i would never ever have thought of them. Then playing a few online games against a few of you and getting summarily curb stomped, im not sure the value add for me playtesting.
User avatar
 
By Gul Dakar
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E German National Participant 2024
#590758
Se7enofMine wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:09 am For me, its pretty simple...im not that good. I see some of the deck ideas you wizards come up with and i would never ever have thought of them. Then playing a few online games against a few of you and getting summarily curb stomped, im not sure the value add for me playtesting.
That ist exactly what i think about it too. Although a friend and I am interested, the value could be...questionable
User avatar
Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#590770
Gul Dakar wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:35 am
Se7enofMine wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:09 am For me, its pretty simple...im not that good. I see some of the deck ideas you wizards come up with and i would never ever have thought of them. Then playing a few online games against a few of you and getting summarily curb stomped, im not sure the value add for me playtesting.
That ist exactly what i think about it too. Although a friend and I am interested, the value could be...questionable
Here’s the thing about that. I’m not a wizard in 2E either and that’s ok. We need people of all levels and play styles because different people see different things about the cards. Being willing to ask questions about the cards is super important. Designers will think a card does something and someone will read the text and see a totally different interpretation.

I’ll give an example of this from a semi recent 2E set. A card in playtesting allowed another personnel card to be at all locations at once. This was a big boost to that personnel and really hurt my deck. I decided that since that personnel was present with me, it meant I could attack that personnel with one of my Assault cards and capture them. That gametext went away in the next development iteration.

The designers of that set were thinking about one thing, but it took someone else to realize that thing worked both ways. It didn’t need genius-level breaking, just someone different to play with the card.
User avatar
 
By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#590795
The design team needs to play at least one game with every card before sending it to playtesting. You have to accept that playtesting resources will be scarce so you need to not waste their time with cards that have obvious rules, usability, or balance issues.
User avatar
 
By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#590796
Speaking as someone that returned to the game - the deckbuilding is really hard.

And I don't mean actually building a deck, but both Lackey and the online deckbuilders are not the most intuitive. So it makes it harder to build for testing, or for playing in events like return to talos IV.

I don't know what a great fix is though
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#590856
boromirofborg wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:58 pm Speaking as someone that returned to the game - the deckbuilding is really hard.

And I don't mean actually building a deck, but both Lackey and the online deckbuilders are not the most intuitive. So it makes it harder to build for testing, or for playing in events like return to talos IV.

I don't know what a great fix is though
Interesting. I find that while the trekcc website could use some modern updating, the deckbuilder is pretty damn good. What is it about it that you dont like? Im curious :)
User avatar
 
By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#590857
Se7enofMine wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:11 am
boromirofborg wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:58 pm Speaking as someone that returned to the game - the deckbuilding is really hard.

And I don't mean actually building a deck, but both Lackey and the online deckbuilders are not the most intuitive. So it makes it harder to build for testing, or for playing in events like return to talos IV.

I don't know what a great fix is though
Interesting. I find that while the trekcc website could use some modern updating, the deckbuilder is pretty damn good. What is it about it that you dont like? Im curious :)
The premium deckbuilder is pretty damn good.

The basic deckbuilder is probably the single best reason to do/pay something to get a premium membership... :wink:
User avatar
 
By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#590886
Se7enofMine wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:11 am Interesting. I find that while the trekcc website could use some modern updating, the deckbuilder is pretty damn good. What is it about it that you dont like? Im curious :)
Some of this may vary per device as well, also it may depend on your familiarity with the cards to begin with.

(Also, for the record, I think the premium deckbuilder is pretty good, compared to other options.)

1 - Advanced search opening in a second window, while the search results are still in the main window is unintuitive.

2 - Advanced search is currently weird, where the list of icon types is really large, all on one side, and pushes the rest off screen.

3 - lack of being able to combine search terms in sets and the rest. I was considering playing in the Return to Talos tournament, and if I wanted to see what was legal in the first tournament (Premere, AU, QC, TNG, Coming of Age, etc) I would have to do separate searches for each set. To be very clear, I do not expect the deckbuilder to have every variant format legality as a built in search, but I would like to be able to search for all Romulan Personnel that are in 3 random expansions in 1 search instead of having to do separate.

To be completely honest, that lack of easy search is why I probably won't be playing in this round. I'm not familiar enough with the cards, and got annoyed enough I didn't really have the time to work on the deck I was thinking of.

To be very clear - this is a me issue, and not a failing of anyone involved in the website - but, it is an example of how when people are on the edge of playing or not, or getting involved or not, slight friction can be enough to put people off.

I really hate to make comparisons, but one of the gold standards of card searchability websites in magic is scryfall.com

Not only is the search interface good, but you can type commands in the search box.

So for example, if I wanted to do my above search, I could have typed:

a:romulan t:personnel s:Pre, AU, QC, TNG, TNGS, COA

and gotten an output of all Romulan personnel from those sets.

4 - I'm a more visual deckbulder. So instead of getting a list of cards I have to click on to see the card, if a search result could display as a grid of pictures I could click to add to the deck, that would be closer to the paper experience of turning pages in binders.

Again, let me be clear. I am not trying to complain about the website. I think it is very good. Just something that could have tweaks.
User avatar
 
By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#590931
Shrink the card pool to a size one is able to actually try to balance and play cards against each other. Now it´s just to many cards for anyone to actually test and assertain if they will break something or now or if they are on, below or above the curve before they are set free into the player base.
User avatar
Chief Programmer
By eberlems
 - Chief Programmer
 -  
Explorer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E  National Second Runner-Up 2023
#590964
boromirofborg wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:21 pm
Se7enofMine wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:11 am Interesting. I find that while the trekcc website could use some modern updating, the deckbuilder is pretty damn good. What is it about it that you dont like? Im curious :)
Some of this may vary per device as well, also it may depend on your familiarity with the cards to begin with.

(Also, for the record, I think the premium deckbuilder is pretty good, compared to other options.)

1 - Advanced search opening in a second window, while the search results are still in the main window is unintuitive.

2 - Advanced search is currently weird, where the list of icon types is really large, all on one side, and pushes the rest off screen.

3 - lack of being able to combine search terms in sets and the rest. I was considering playing in the Return to Talos tournament, and if I wanted to see what was legal in the first tournament (Premere, AU, QC, TNG, Coming of Age, etc) I would have to do separate searches for each set. To be very clear, I do not expect the deckbuilder to have every variant format legality as a built in search, but I would like to be able to search for all Romulan Personnel that are in 3 random expansions in 1 search instead of having to do separate.

To be completely honest, that lack of easy search is why I probably won't be playing in this round. I'm not familiar enough with the cards, and got annoyed enough I didn't really have the time to work on the deck I was thinking of.

To be very clear - this is a me issue, and not a failing of anyone involved in the website - but, it is an example of how when people are on the edge of playing or not, or getting involved or not, slight friction can be enough to put people off.

I really hate to make comparisons, but one of the gold standards of card searchability websites in magic is scryfall.com

Not only is the search interface good, but you can type commands in the search box.

So for example, if I wanted to do my above search, I could have typed:

a:romulan t:personnel s:Pre, AU, QC, TNG, TNGS, COA

and gotten an output of all Romulan personnel from those sets.

4 - I'm a more visual deckbulder. So instead of getting a list of cards I have to click on to see the card, if a search result could display as a grid of pictures I could click to add to the deck, that would be closer to the paper experience of turning pages in binders.

Again, let me be clear. I am not trying to complain about the website. I think it is very good. Just something that could have tweaks.
At least with a mouse, you can now select multiple expansions in the 1e search. Selecting blocks still limits to within that block. Multiple blocks does not make much sense to search.
As for search by text, you can use the GET parameters as shown in the "Direct Link", but it is longer than single letters.
User avatar
First Edition Art Manager
By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
 -  
#591021
What if…

…Playtesters were recruited from the far larger STCCG Facebook player base, instead of the TCC player base?

Would that feedback be better than no feedback?
1EFQ: Game of two halves

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve re[…]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

Happy birthday to @Takket ! :D :thumbsup: […]

Opponents turn

Remodulation

It started in mid-2013. At that time it became sta[…]