This forums is for questions, answers, and discussion about First Edition rules, formats, and expansions.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#595414
I was so intent on Rules Stuff yesterday (not to mention getting my new deck ready for Sunday's local event) that I quite forgot it was Friday. So here's a belated Friday Question:

There is a rule that ships have not only an affiliation but an origin. This is kind of like what a species is for personnel. For most ships, their affiliation and origin is the same (just like, for most personnel, their affiliation and species is the same). But some ships state a different origin in lore. For example, [Bor] U.S.S. Enterprise-E (20th Anniversary Collection) has a Federation origin, [Car] / [Fed] Stolen Attack Ship has a Dominion origin, and [Fer] B'rel has a Klingon origin.

If a card says it targets " [Fed] ships," that means only the affiliation. But if a card says it affects "Federation ships," that includes both affiliation and origin (again, a lot like how affiliation and species work). So [Bor] U.S.S. Enterprise-E is affected by Maman Picard, [Fed] Stolen Attack Ship gets the Dominion bonus from Target Weapons, and destroying [Fer] B'rel in battle scores points for Klingon Civil War.

Sometimes this makes TrekSense (it makes sense that the [Fer] U.S.S. Enterprise can use its Phaser Banks, for example). Sometimes, not so much (it's weird that a Rebel Interceptor can be targeted by Incoming Message - Bajoran). But that's the rule.

The question is twofold:

(1) Were you aware of this rule?

(2) Do you think it's a good rule the game should keep?


The alternative would be to rule that "Klingon ship" (or whatever) means literally [Kli] affiliation ships, no more and no less.

The full current rule is printed here, in the sidebar "Automatic Characteristic: Origin (10.3.0.6)". Alternatively, you can find it in the Glossary at https://www.trekcc.org/op/1e_rulebook/G ... hip-origin

Happy Saturday.
 
By Tosk
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#595416
I was not aware that this was an official rule but I had always basically intuited it as working that way. I would prefer to keep it, and even expand on it.

My hope is that when the CC reaches the "Crime" expansion block that this will become even MORE relevant. I have long wanted ships like the Naprem or the T'Pau to be able to go "undercover" in an appropriate fleet (maybe some variation or expansion of the Infiltration mechanics?)
User avatar
 
By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#595425
1. Aware
2. Keep it unless C is willing to go thru are errata all the cards that make or don't make sense so that they use "Klingon" to mean any ship that used to be Klingon like now, and [Kli] to mean only affiliation.

As other's have said, it's too much like species to not have it in the game. I much prefer slight complication in the rules that are easy to grok like this over flavorless streamlining that means any Enterprise cannot use phaser banks.

(Also, makes sense to me in the sense of commandeering as well.)
User avatar
 
By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#595430
I love this rule with kolinahr. Stolen ship and t'pau staffed with Tallera, Ambassador spock, the [1E-Rom] [Vul] [22] guy I can't remember the name of right now, and [1E-Rom] Mr. Spock make a fun little [1E-Rom] armada to hang out around Vulcan and attempt reunification.
User avatar
 
By Smiley (Cristoffer Wiker)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#595452
1. Unfortunately, I have tried to suppress it for a long time.
2. The idea is interesting, and I understand why it's there. But it is relatively complex for people to grasp or even know of as it is something that rarely comes up, and if it does, almost never in a good way. So I hope that we could instead move away from it to clear up the outliers.
User avatar
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#595467
Keep it that way to avoid confusion. I am a former No 1 and arch-conservative regarding this game. Change as less as possible and I am happy :) . Btw: Keep Ref! :)
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#595469
I'm glad I checked (it always helps to do these little sanity checks), but it seems like there's a pretty clear consensus here.

Thanks for your replies!

(The origin of the question is: 14 months ago, while doing final checks on Chariot of "God", we realized it had no Federation ship origin, which led to a last-minute lore tweak and some wondering about whether most people knew the rule and whether it was a sensible rule. A 1EFQ was suggested, and, a year later, I remembered to actually ask it!)
Card Page Glitches

So, it's seeming on some sets that the cards on th[…]

Question for noob

Awesome. Thanks everyone for all the help!

Only works when RS is played after AIV. This is be[…]

Still a few weeks left to get registered for the[…]