[BCSWowbagger]

Tox Uthat and Supernova are legal again, and the Balance Team is actively trying to collect data on them together, so I would like to use them in my tournament next Saturday. In fact, I want to use them scary. I want to deal maximum possible damage to my opponent so that I win.

I'm having trouble building a good deck for it, though. I, at least, am finding Tox Uthat a little slow and unreliable (especially since I need to have a Q2 in my hand before I put the Tox on the table). I've tried retrofitting Tox into my sedate solver, but they're too slow at solving their first mission (and they usually don't go planet-first).

Partly this is my fault. I don't usually build decks that need to draw into certain specific cards by certain specific turns, and I find the math intimidating. Also, I haven't built a straight-up pedal-to-the-floor speed solver in years now, and I think Tox Uthat really probably needs a speed solver behind it.

However, I got a Google Calendar Notification tonight that today is my turn for a Friday Question, and I got a brainwave: maybe I can use my 1EFQ to trick the community into helping me kill everyone next Saturday??

What are your suggestions for building my perfect Tox Uthat + Supernova deck?

I have two restrictions on this little project:

* I don't want to play , for several different reasons. (I have reason to believe Tox + Vidiians is quite good, but I don't want to go there today.)

* Please do not assume I will have the element of surprise, because, well...

Other than that, I'd like your best ideas for using this card to its maximum power (unless you're saving your own best ideas for murdering your own friends' stars).

[Armus]

Quick off-the-cuff thoughts.

Seek Illicit Relic to Avoid Dead End and get Tox early.

Seed Rishon and download Rishon Uxbridge to protect it.

Hogan+McKay as your mission specialists to set up the early solve.

Get a lot of people out fast and roll.

[abargar7510]

* I don't want to play , for several different reasons. (I have reason to believe Tox + Vidiians is quite good, but I don't want to go there today.)

Of course it's good. It has to be good. Both are tools against aggro Borg. If you think Tox/ /whatever else kind of similar sledgehammer counters against aggro Borg are too powerful, you need to acknowledge that aggro Borg are too powerful and need the attention to be reined in.

[Professor Scott]

Quick off-the-cuff thoughts.

Seek Illicit Relic to Avoid Dead End and get Tox early.

Seed Rishon and download Rishon Uxbridge to protect it.

Hogan+McKay as your mission specialists to set up the early solve.

Get a lot of people out fast and roll.

McKay can assist survivor Rishon doing Geo things.

[Rachmaninoff]

I still want to play Vulcan Ba'ku Supernova at some point -- Vulcan deck for ShiKahr + Only Logical to name Dead End at Insurrection, play Tox the same turn you earn it with Temporal Almanac, take a double turn with Collect Metaphasic Particles and nuke your opponent before they get a chance to respond -- but, of course, this kind of trick deck runs afoul of your "element of surprise" rule.

So I would recommend playing a setup that looks like Vulcan Ba'ku Supernova, but the REAL surprise is that you don't have a Supernova at all! Rather, you take advantage of your opponent's fear of an impending surprise Supernova (e.g., they spread their crew out and avoid large teams, so you should stock dilemmas with large attribute requirements; or they keep their personnel at your missions, where they are easier to mess with) to put them on tilt, and take advantage of the fact that Insurrection probably drew their toughest planet combo. If you really want to push the latter point, go imbalanced (6 planet) and rely on the fact that the other missions will be MUCH easier because they won't want you to get Insurrection early.

You might think my answer is cheating, but I would argue a deck that is built to take advantage of the paranoia around a potential surprise Supernova fits the spirit of your question, if not the letter. Of course you could stock a Supernova anyway, and if your opponent lets you get into Insurrection early it's gravy.

[BCSWowbagger]

* I don't want to play , for several different reasons. (I have reason to believe Tox + Vidiians is quite good, but I don't want to go there today.)

Of course it's good. It has to be good. Both are tools against aggro Borg. If you think Tox/ /whatever else kind of similar sledgehammer counters against aggro Borg are too powerful, you need to acknowledge that aggro Borg are too powerful and need the attention to be reined in.

To be clear, I'm not veering away from because they are good. I'm veering away from because I had a large role in designing them, and I think it's poor form to be a dick to your friends using your own toys (at least during the first year in release while the meta is still adapting).

I also think it might be the case that + Tox Uthat is broken. If that's true, then is the problem with or with Tox? (Or with both?) That's my other reason for dodging this time.

Quick off-the-cuff thoughts.

Seek Illicit Relic to Avoid Dead End and get Tox early.

Seed Rishon and download Rishon Uxbridge to protect it.

Hogan+McKay as your mission specialists to set up the early solve.

Get a lot of people out fast and roll.

I like all these ideas. I haven't built a speed solver in years and years. What's good at solving fast with 10-or-fewer seeds these days? ? Or did they finally get nerfed down to size? (And are they the right affiliation for taking advantage of my opponent's nova'ing?)

[Ashigaru]

* I don't want to play , for several different reasons. (I have reason to believe Tox + Vidiians is quite good, but I don't want to go there today.)

Of course it's good. It has to be good. Both are tools against aggro Borg. If you think Tox/ /whatever else kind of similar sledgehammer counters against aggro Borg are too powerful, you need to acknowledge that aggro Borg are too powerful and need the attention to be reined in.

To be clear, I'm not veering away from because they are good. I'm veering away from because I had a large role in designing them, and I think it's poor form to be a dick to your friends using your own toys (at least during the first year in release while the meta is still adapting).

I also think it might be the case that + Tox Uthat is broken. If that's true, then is the problem with or with Tox? (Or with both?) That's my other reason for dodging this time.

Let's stipulate for the sake of argument here that Vidiian + Tox Uthat = Broken to address the question of "Is the problem Vidiians or Tox Uther/Supernova?" I'd look at it this way - "Are Vidiians broken WITHOUT Tox/Supernova?" And regardless of how someone feels about SST/SSK, I think it is fair to argue that their existence is the biggest caution against someone going balls-to-the-wall speed vomit out their hand/deck ASAP. So, assuming the prior statement is true, would you find it more important to preserve that check or to preserve Supernova?

As a probable Saturday victim of this, I'd say that hinges on a few questions.

1) How consistent is this? If it's consistent, then that sounds like a massive invitation for non-games/NPEs.
2) Even if it IS inconsistent, is this leading to massive non-games/NPEs when it does hit? If it is, I don't think you'd be happy saying "At start of game, roll 1d6 and if you roll a 1, just write down the FL already."
3) If it's consistent enough that players are compelled to either run a massive Uxbridge package or no choice but to do speed-solvers themselves, that sounds like too high a price to pay for the sake of keeping Tox around.

[BCSWowbagger]

Let's stipulate for the sake of argument here that Vidiian + Tox Uthat = Broken to address the question of "Is the problem Vidiians or Tox Uther/Supernova?"

I must disagree with this at the outset, because I don't think one can stipulate to this.

The questions you ask at the end cannot be answered without a lot of gameplay data not in evidence. For example, the whole dichotomy you set up assumes Vidiians are fine by themselves, but I know there are concerns that Vidiians are OP (aside from the controversy about their role in the meta). So I don't think we can even reach the point of asking your questions without more games.

Dunno how likely you are to be a victim of anything on Saturday given how badly my deckbuilding is going, but here's hoping!

[Ashigaru]

Let's stipulate for the sake of argument here that Vidiian + Tox Uthat = Broken to address the question of "Is the problem Vidiians or Tox Uther/Supernova?"

I must disagree with this at the outset, because I don't think one can stipulate to this.

The questions you ask at the end cannot be answered without a lot of gameplay data not in evidence. For example, the whole dichotomy you set up assumes Vidiians are fine by themselves, but I know there are concerns that Vidiians are OP (aside from the controversy about their role in the meta). So I don't think we can even reach the point of asking your questions without more games.

Dunno how likely you are to be a victim of anything on Saturday given how badly my deckbuilding is going, but here's hoping!

I mean, of course the underlying premise could be false, but you can't really do a question about "If that's true..." without assuming it is. So let's break down the various possibilties.

1) Vidiians are OP even without Uthat. If yes, then obviously something would need to be done about the underlying affiliation (presumably SST/SSK)
1a) If so, did Uthat make it worse (perhaps because SST/SSK make it too easy to break through and get to Uthat/draw into Supernova)? In this case, you would have to look at the effects of changes to the underlying affiliation.
1b) If so, did changes to underlying affiliation have a resultant effect on Uthat with other affiliations (the idea being that they then feel free to go all-gas and thus can get their Uthat/Nova combo easier). If this turns out to be the case, then depending on how it occurs will determine if the fitting response is changes to problematic cards or if the basic rules of the game need to be changed.

2) Vidiians are strong, but not OP without Uthat. If yes, then did Uthat make them OP? If so, then the problem is with Uthat. If no, then Vidiians are safe.

3) If Vidiians are fine, then is there a problem with other speedy affiliations and Uthat? If yes, then the problem is with Uthat. If no, then Uthat may be fine.

4) Assuming that there is enough underlying consistency in being able to access Uthat, how effective are responses. Just for the sake of illustrating the point, if multiple affiliations are able to reliably get to their Uthat, is it healthy for deckbuilding for ANY affiliation to start with "I need to include X number of Uxbridge in case they're running Uthat." Probably not, that's the sort of thing that led to Ref-icon cards becoming part of the basic rules.

Of course, any of these assumptions could turn out to be inaccurate (maybe it's just too inconsistent to justify a heavy-handed response), but it does reflect the basic sort of tree I think you'd need to go through to reach the final determination of "Okay, we've determined the underlying problem (be it SST/SSK, Uthat, other affiliations speed capability, whatever), now what (if anything) do we do in response."

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

I mean you don't have to go planet first with Cryosatellite.

[WeAreBack]

In addition to Seek Illicit Relic there are 3 other ways around Dead End: We'll Need a Starship, The Genesis Effect, and Only Logical.

I originally wrote that there was a fourth way Terran Flagship, but this is wrong because it only overcomes a dilemma, and that influenced my thoughts on the strategy to go with on the issue.

It looks like if you want to seed 2 copies the best bet would be a Vulcan deck that uses Hostage Crisis, Paradise City and We'll need a Starship. That way, you can also use only Logical. Sneaky thing is to use Recover Stolen Material and then also use Only Logical at the same mission, just in case.

Edit: I mistakenly said you could use Terran Flagship to get around Dead End. Revised entire post as a result of realizing this was wrong.