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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E Qo'noS Regional Participant 2021
#559714
Cargo Bay [link to card]

You begin a cargo run (as described on this site) when one or more of your personnel aboard a facility pick up one or more Equipment cards aboard that facility and carry them directly aboard your ship at the same location. You must announce the run and show your opponent which personnel and equipment are involved (but you do not have to specify now which personnel, equipment, or Cargo Bay you will use to complete it). When that ship arrives at a different facility any number of turns later, any of those same personnel who has been a member of the ship's crew since the run was announced may carry any of those equipment cards directly to the Cargo Bay to complete the cargo run.

You may not begin or complete a cargo run by beaming a crew member with equipment between universes with a Multidimensional Transport Device, or by beaming them aboard a ship with Invasive Transporters and then to Cargo Bay. You may not complete a cargo run begun by your opponent (e.g, if you take control of the ship with Neural Servo Device).

Your ship can take any path from the starting facility to the ending facility, giving you credit for each mission passed (except starting and ending locations). You may count each mission only once per cargo run. See passing locations.

While you may have multiple ships making cargo runs concurrently, a single ship's crew can complete only one at a time, earning card draws or Latinum downloads for only one piece of equipment. To deliver any additional equipment, a crew must begin a new cargo run. See report.
So the glossary implies some things but I'd like to clarify them and see if it still works that way, or if it works a different way and the glossary is just "outdated" in its wording.
You begin a cargo run (as described on this site) when one or more of your personnel aboard a facility pick up one or more Equipment cards aboard that facility and carry them directly aboard your ship at the same location.
So regardless of the facility I start at, Nor, outpost, whatever... this seems to imply I have to send a crewmember to the facility and "carry" the equipment to my ship.

Does my ship have to be docked? (I can't carry equipment if the ship is not docked)

If no, Can I just transport the equipment to my ship all by itself?

If no, can I transport a crewperson to the facility, have them "carry" the equipment, then beam them back to the ship, then declare my cargo run?

Now the other end, when we arrive at a the location of a Nor with a Cargo Bay...
When that ship arrives at a different facility any number of turns later, any of those same personnel who has been a member of the ship's crew since the run was announced may carry any of those equipment cards directly to the Cargo Bay to complete the cargo run.
So, similar questions. This is written from the perspective of the old rules where the only way to the Cargo Bay was to dock and walk, and this limited how many cargo runs you could do because you couldn't say, walk to the cargo bay, complete the run, then walk to the science lab, grab a PADD, walk back to the docking site, and start another run all on the same turn.

Do I have to dock the ship at a docking site and "carry" the equipment to the Cargo Bay?

If no, Can I just transport the equipment to the Cargo Bay by itself?

If no, can I transport a crewperson to the Docking Bay with the equipment (I.E. does a person have to actually go to the Cargo Bay to "deliver" the equipment?

Furthermore...
You may not begin or complete a cargo run by beaming a crew member with equipment between universes with a Multidimensional Transport Device, or by beaming them aboard a ship with Invasive Transporters and then to Cargo Bay.
These rules were put in place to avoid players "cheating" around the Nor walking and beaming rules. Are these even relevant anymore? I suppose they serve a purpose from the perspective of not allowing you to complete Cargo Runs on your opponent's Nor, right? But from the perspective of my Nor, who cares if I can't invasive beam onto my Nor if I can just use my normal transporters anyway? Should this section be deleted or modified? Or just left in place to cover invasive beaming to opponent's Cargo Bay?

Lastly walking... With the new rules I can't see any reason why I can't complete a cargo run, walk to the science lab, pick up a PADD, walk back to my docking site/ship (or beam to my ship if allowed), and start another cargo run right then, assuming I have any RANGE left to move with. The "once per turn" on Cargo Bay is only for COMPLETING the runs, but I should be able to start, complete and start again all on the same turn, correct?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E World Champion 2021
Architect
Community Contributor
#559717
"Carrying" equipment does not necessarily mean walking with it. Any movement (including relocation) where a personnel takes equipment with her is "carrying" equipment.

Beaming from a Cargo Bay to a ship with equipment counts as carrying equipment from the bay to the ship. That right there answers most of your questions.

I'm not too sure what the advantage of this is, since you could just as easily dock (it would require a pretty odd compatibility situation for you to be able to beam aboard the Nor but not dock at it), but I guess you dodge Docking Procedures by beaming? Or maybe you didn't include a docking site at all. Whatever. Anyway, beaming should work, because "carrying" equipment includes beaming, and so everything the Glossary has to say about that still makes sense.
Takket wrote:
You may not begin or complete a cargo run by beaming a crew member with equipment between universes with a Multidimensional Transport Device, or by beaming them aboard a ship with Invasive Transporters and then to Cargo Bay.
I suppose they serve a purpose from the perspective of not allowing you to complete Cargo Runs on your opponent's Nor, right?
I don't actually see anything here that prevents you from using Invasive Transporters to complete a cargo run, including on your opponent's station. What I understand this to be saying is simply a reinforcement of the Cargo Bay's iron rule that you have to go from the facility to a ship to a Bay, with nothing else in the middle.

So you can't start a cargo run with Ship A at Station B, then fly Ship A to Station C and beam everyone from Ship A to Ship B (which has Invasive Transporters) before beaming them to Station C. On the other hand, if Ship A has Invasive Transporters, I think it would work just fine (even if opponent controls Station C), and this passage has no problem with it.

It's possible it could use a revision anyway, for clarity, especially since it obviously wasn't too clear what it meant to at least one participant in this thread.
Lastly walking... With the new rules I can't see any reason why I can't complete a cargo run, walk to the science lab, pick up a PADD, walk back to my docking site/ship (or beam to my ship if allowed), and start another cargo run right then, assuming I have any RANGE left to move with.
Nor do I.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E World Champion 2021
Architect
Community Contributor
#562349
Not blue, not official, but I read this as:
Code: Select all
for each ( mission in missionspassed):
          choose("draw a card" OR "download a latinum")
          if (choice == "draw a card")
                    deck.draw();
          else if (choice == "download a latinum")
                    player.download(new CardTitle("Gold-Pressed Latinum") )
^ I am here following the ancient tradition of rules people overcomplicating their answers in pursuit of clarity even though the overcomplication renders clarity impossible.

The short answer is: yes, I think you can mix-and-match.
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 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#562356
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:54 pm The short answer is: yes, I think you can mix-and-match.
That's how I've always seen it played. :thumbsup:

Tons of views so far, at a glance, I came up with […]

ok thats still worse than report to ship. :borg:

What's Wrong with Achievements?

Thanks!

"You may not play"

i read it the same way