User avatar
 
By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2022
#581530
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 pm
boromirofborg wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:12 pmActually, I found a copy of the BoG supplement online - https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/ ... wgermesorg. and it says
This is now also true for Q-Continuum as well
Ah, yes, don't put it under its own heading, Decipher, that would be too communicative! Players might actually find it that way! Put it in a parenthetical aside in an entry about a different side deck. SMDH.

Clearly you all figured it out, though, so whatever system they had going must have worked for the established player base. (Me, I was playing casually with my little 10-year-old friends at the time, and I didn't figure out how Q cards were played until 2012.)
If it makes you feel better, I looked over my physical copy of the BoG Rules Supplement read right past that parenthetical. :roll:
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E World Champion 2021
Contender
Community Contributor
1E North American Continental Runner-Up 2022
#581531
^ That does, in fact, sincerely make me feel better, so thank you.]

(I don't see it in that month's CRD, so this appears to constitute the sole announcement, unless I just missed it in the CRD. I've got all the rules supplements / CRDS at the Rules Archive in my sig if anyone wants to go dumpster diving.)
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#581655
I think most of this conversation is misguided and taking too many hyper-literal interpretations of the rules. Given multiple sources and the history of the game, it should be clear that the intent is and always as been that cards with point boxes, including [Q] cards, go to the point area.

One of the tenants (even if unwritten and uncodified) of the game is that points, to the extent possible, it kept track by cards. This is the entire reason missions are slid toward you and cards are placed in point boxes. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but those are exceptions- intended to be intentional rarities.

If we want to take the point box and point area literally, then I should point out there is no rule whatsoever the indicates that a card with a point box automatically scores (except for dilemmas and objectives). Does Business Gambit, Latinuum Payoff or Parallax Arguers score points? Nothing explicitly says these cards "scores points". M a y b e they have point boxes simply to have a subtle interaction (e.g. Are These Truly Your Friends, Brother?). Further according this rule, a card only goes to your bonus point area by default if it "leaves play".
If a card with a bonus point box is worth points to you when it leaves play, place it in a point area on your side of the table so that you remember those points. These cards are not in play, nor are they part of your discard pile.
Hence, Kevin Uxbridge, Amanda Rogers and interrupts in general (among other cards) never enter play, so they should never go to the point area.
Of course, this interpretation is absurd. It is beyond clear that the intention of these cards is to score points and be placed in the point area as part of their resolution.
Simply put: Just like the presence of a point box assume the points score upon an explicit or implicit condition (e.g., in some cases, simply playing the card), the presence of a point box assumes the card will be placed in the point area when scored unless elsewhere more appropriate (e.g. "worth points"). The notion that a card- whose text is simply paraphrasing the rules- would override this (albeit unwritten) tenant regarding point boxes seems overreaching.

I would further contend that a card does not "enter play" until it fully resolves to enter play. The entry for "in play" as evolved over the years, but it has been and continues to be a futile and tautological attempt to classify all the ways a card can "enter play." A history of the entry shows multiple subtle revisions including the addition of the parenthetical text (May 2021) to emphasize that pending (played) cards played aren't in play until they resolve. However, this held before this, even if it was not codified. One of the very first FAQ's reads:
b) [Kevin Uxbridge] can prevent an event from ever entering play if [Kevin Uxbridge] is played immediately after the event is played.
Hence, the concept of "entering play" was assumed to be second nature: the card had to move from another zone into play, and had to do so "successfully." That seemed so obvious that it never needed to be explicitly be said. Indeed, at one point the "in play" entry emphasized what "zones" a card could be in addition to "in play", the corollary being that it was only "in play" if it wasn't in one of those zones- and the list was a futile attempt to compile a comprehensive list of ways a card could enter play, but it was never meant to delineate exactly when a card entered play. Again, that was to go without saying- for a card to enter play, it had to be successful and not immediately discarded upon effect.

To demonstrate the lack of completion of the entry, according to a hyper-literal reading today, personnel entering play with Anti-Time Anomaly with Persistence of Memory or even The Caretaker's "Guests" or Quandary aren't "in play" because those personnel did not meet any of the prescribed conditions. But of course, that is absurd. Similarly, taking the "in play" entry that a [Q] card is "in play" immediately upon its initiation (unlike its Q-less counterparts) is a very big stretch. Outside of this conversation, I would find it hard to convince anyone that an Into the Breach (an event) would repair all ships even if it were nullified by Kevin Uxbridge or (pre-errata) Q-Flash upon encounter. Given the non comprehensive nature and history of the "in play" rule, it is more natural to conclude with the interpretation that analogous parenthetical text should apply to all other methods to "enter play"- including [Q] cards. Hence, [Q] cards with point boxes never enter play to be affected by Q-Flash's "new text."

In all, this conversation is simply the result of a small oversight in rules changes and multiple hyper-literal interpretation of cards and rules that, if held, would catastrophically cascade to other cards.

Lastly, the intent that [Q] cards go to your point area is solidified by the repeated mention of such in the updated Dilemma Resolution Guide.

In all, the intent and answer are clear: They go to your point pile and it has always been that way.

The point area shall Live Long and Prosper wherever possible.
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#581704
Dukat wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:24 pm James's last reply was that in his opinion, which was not written in blue, however, is, that the card goes back to the Q-Flash.

I therefore say that, at the moment, that is the closest to an 'official' statement that we have.
More official than the six times this exact issue is covered and resolved by the Dilemma Resolution Guide? Incidentally, the only case the bonus point area is not mentioned for Q cards within the Dilemma Resolution Guide is Mandarin Bailiff .
DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG! [10 points]
If any [Bor] ship or {Borg Ship} dilemma is on this spaceline, opponent
(even if playing Borg) scores points (once per game), and you may
relocate one such card up to 20 span away from its current location on
same spaceline.
If no Borg affiliation ships or Borg Ship dilemma on same spaceline as where
Q-Interrupt encountered, discard Q-Interrupt; Q-Flash continues.
Otherwise, opponent places Q-Interrupt in their bonus point area. You may then
select one Borg affiliation ship or Borg Ship dilemma on the spaceline and move it up
to 20 span on the same spaceline.
LEMON-AID [5 points]
If you are at least 20 points ahead of your opponent, graciously give
this card to opponent, who scores bonus points. (May not be nullified.)
If your score is 20 or more points higher than opponent's score, opponent scores
points, place Q-Interrupt in opponent's bonus points area; Q-Flash
continues. Otherwise, discard Q-Interrupt; Q-Flash continues.
This card cannot be nullified.
QUANDARY [-5 points]
"Restore" one personnel from your discard pile (there may not be a
version of the same persona in play) and shuffle into crew or Away
Team. Opponent then selects one personnel (random selection). If it is
not "restored" personnel, discard it and lose points.
Select a target (one personnel in your discard pile) to shuffle into Away Team/crew.
(Personnel that are a copy or another persona of a card in play are not valid
targets.)
Opponent randomly selects one personnel in Away Team/crew. If selected personnel
is not the target, discard the selected personnel and lose points; place Q-Interrupt in
your bonus points area. If the target is selected, discard Q-Interrupt. Target remains
in play as part of Away Team/crew, regardless of which personnel is selected,
Q-Flash continues.
WESLEY GETS THE POINT [1 points]
If you have {Wesley Crusher} present or on any planet, he scores bonus
point and dies.
If your Wesley Crusher in Away Team/crew or on any planet, score bonus point.
Discard Wesley Crusher from play, and place Q-Interrupt in bonus points area;
Q-Flash continues. Otherwise, discard Q-Interrupt; Q-Flash continues.
RISKY BUSINESS [-5 points]
If only one personnel in crew or Away Team, that personnel dies (erased
if [Holo]); seed dilemma beneath mission to be encountered again.
Otherwise, if you have any one-person crews or Away Teams anywhere
in play, choose one of them to die OR lose points. (Dilemma does not
affect Borg.)
If playing [Bor] or you have no one-personnel Away Teams/crews in play, discard
dilemma; mission (or Q-Flash) continues.
If only one personnel in Away Team/crew, that personnel is killed (erased if [Holo]).
Reseed dilemma beneath mission to be encountered again (even if dilemma was
encountered as part of a Q-Flash).
Otherwise, choose one: select a target (one of your one-personnel Away
Team/crews) to die then discard dilemma OR score points; move dilemma to bonus
points area
. Away Team/crew not stopped; mission (or Q-Flash) continues.
PLA-NET [-5 points]
Immediately choose whether or not to nullify the next seed card at this
location. If you choose to nullify, lose points. Otherwise, if that seed
card turns out to be a dilemma and it "stops," disables or puts in stasis
any of your personnel, lose points.
If you wish to nullify Pla-Net, you must do so before choosing.
Choose one: nullify the next seed card at this location and lose points (move dilemma
to your bonus points area) OR do not nullify the next seed card, but if the next seed
card is a dilemma that stops, disables, or puts into stasis any of your personnel, lose
points (move dilemma to your bonus points area). (Borg must choose the second
option, but cannot lose points.)
If you nullify the next seed card, remove it and place it into its owner's discard pile.
Away Team/crew is not stopped; mission (or Q-Flash) continues. If you do not nullify
the next seed card, and the card is not a dilemma, or does not affect your personnel
as specified, discard Pla-Net.
Q'S FANTASY WOMEN [5 points]
Plays on a male present (opponent's choice) until any {Q-Flash}. If he
helps you solve a mission, opponent scores points. Discard event.
If playing Borg affiliation, discard gender-related Q-Event immediately; Q-Flash
continues.
If no target (male) present in Away Team/crew, discard Q-Event; Q-Flash continues.
Otherwise, opponent selects one male in Away Team/crew to play Q-Event on;
Q-Flash continues.
If that personnel helps solve a mission, opponent places Q-Event in their bonus point
area.

Otherwise, discard Q-Event when either player has a Q-Flash during a mission
attempt, or if target personnel leaves play.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E World Champion 2021
Contender
Community Contributor
1E North American Continental Runner-Up 2022
#582911
Rules will discuss this. In particular, we are considering the principle that the score should be tracked by means of cards that are face-up on the table (and whether [Q] cards are currently an exception under Q-Flash's gametext, and whether that should continue to be the case).

In the meantime, as always, the ruling of your tournament director (whatever it is) is correct.
THE RAGE THREAD

YEAHHH! WHYYY?? LOVE FOR EVERYONE!!!! Wait, you c[…]

FW +1 ? Or what would the differential be?[…]

Wishing all the best to all our floridian brothers[…]

THE RAGE THREAD

RAGE! RAGE AGAINST THE DYING OF THE LIGHT! I […]