[sevencrdspud]

So if you "must" discard a card to, say Finally Ready to Swim, but you can't because your hand just happens to be empty after playing the card, what happens?

Does this prevent you from playing the card? (Do as much as you can?)

"Must" actions in the glossary don't cover this.

Would this be considered a cost you have to pay?

As always, I'm ready for this to NOT rule in my favor...

[BCSWowbagger]

So if you "must" discard a card to, say Finally Ready to Swim, but you can't because your hand just happens to be empty after playing the card, what happens?

Does this prevent you from playing the card?

I think that is correct. 1E is not a "Do as much as you can" game. It is, in most respects (required downloads, etc.) a "do or do not; there is no try" game.

But I don't have a Glossary quote to prove this, nor do I know that a Glossary entry even exists addressing this question.

[Discovery suxs]

Since wowbagger couldn't answer your question. I will go to the legendary ccg at this point. A must cost in star trek is a activation cost to perform the action in the game. So if you can't do it then you can't can't perform the action in the game.

Wowbagger is right I don't think it is in the glossary. I'm willing to bet it is the archived decipher rulebook. Magic set the ground work for every ccg. So star trek ccg copied alot of the basic rules. They then changed things to fit there desired effect for the game. CC changed alot of the rules but not everything.

[Discovery suxs]

I downloaded the current glossary on the main page.

I searched must for 32 pages. So if someone else wants to pick up from there that would be great.

Best I found was this

Triggers – A trigger is an element that must be present (or a situation that must exist)

[sevencrdspud]

Yeah... paging pfti for a blue ruling.

[Comicbookhero]

Actually, the specific example of Finally Ready to Swim came up in the design process for The Terran Empire with their “no hand” mechanics. It was decided that since the discard from Finally Ready to Swim happens after you have played the non- card in question, you did not need to discard if you had no cards in hand. This is in contrast to the the precedent set by the 211th Rule of Acquisition which specifies that the discard must be made before a card is played in order to play it. Hopefully this is helpful.

[Discovery suxs]

Actually, the specific example of Finally Ready to Swim came up in the design process for The Terran Empire with their “no hand” mechanics. It was decided that since the discard from Finally Ready to Swim happens after you have played the non- card in question, you did not need to discard if you had no cards in hand. This is in contrast to the the precedent set by the 211th Rule of Acquisition which specifies that the discard must be made before a card is played in order to play it. Hopefully this is helpful.

Logically it makes sense for both cards. Logically is not 1E though lol. I will play it your way until we find something else.

[AllenGould]

So if you "must" discard a card to, say Finally Ready to Swim, but you can't because your hand just happens to be empty after playing the card, what happens?

Either you can still play the card, or templating screwed up.

As worded, you play the card, *then* discard a card. So if you have no cards left, then well... guess you have no cards to discard.

Contrast with 211th Rule of Acquisition, 59th Rule of Acquisition, Shape-Shift Inhibitor, and Containment Field , which all say you "must first" do something (emphasis mine).

So, with the current wording (that *doesn't* say you first discard), I would argue that the discard is after, and you do what you can. Or, the text got borked and it needs errata to add "first".

[BCSWowbagger]

How is this theory of the card reconciled with Sherman's Peak and similar? On that card, you play the Peak, then download K-7.

If you don't have K-7, it isn't "oh, well, no K-7". The download is invalid AND Sherman's Peak is invalid and must be returned to hand.

Not saying you're wrong, just that I am confused.

[AllenGould]

How is this theory of the card reconciled with Sherman's Peak and similar? On that card, you play the Peak, then download K-7.

If you don't have K-7, it isn't "oh, well, no K-7". The download is invalid AND Sherman's Peak is invalid and must be returned to hand.

Not saying you're wrong, just that I am confused.

Do you have a rules reference for that? The only one I'm finding thus far is tied to Computer Crash, and that's because Crash says you can't play cards that require downloads.

Near as I recall, if you play Peak, you either have to download K-7 or you fall under this clause in "downloading"

If your download is invalid because you
could not produce the target card(s),
your opponent is allowed to look
through your hand, draw deck,
Zalkonian Storage Capsule, and Q’s
Tent (if open), or any other source
specified for the download

[BCSWowbagger]

On mobile, so can't quote, but the Glossary entry I have in mind is apparently Montana Missile Complex, if you have a chance to look that up.

[AllenGould]

On mobile, so can't quote, but the Glossary entry I have in mind is apparently Montana Missile Complex, if you have a chance to look that up.

No worries. You're right on the ruling, but it's attached to Montana Missile Complex specifically. Which makes me suspect it's errata-in-disguise. (And personally, unnecessary errata-in-disguise, since outside of a themed event, who has ever kept a Zefram handy just in case they need to nullify this?)

[BCSWowbagger]

Oh, man, if that ruling was cabined to just Montana Missile Complex, it'd change my whole view of mandatory actions in 1E.

And, more to the point, it would make me agree with the consensus in this thread that you can ignore the discard on Finally Ready if you have no cards in hand.

(Come to think of it, it's pretty well-aligned with our rulings on draw deck exhaustion, too, isn't it? I like this answer better and better.)

On the other hand, I think this creates problems for time locations in general. Suppose I know my opponent is playing Mirror Starfleet. So I put together a little surprise for him. On my first turn during the facility phase, I don't seed the traditional hidden agenda or Tribunal of Q; instead, I seed my own copy of 22nd-Century Japan. It instructs me to download Imperial Palace. I didn't stock it, so I can't. My opponent looks through my deck to prove it. If your ruling is right, then my seed of Japan without the HQ stands. Opponent can't seed his own copy, because it's non-duplicatable, and we still don't treat duplicate time locations as shared locations like missions. Opponent must simply discard his Japan. He is now deprived of his HQ for the whole game!

So that's potentially a problem. With all non-time-location cards I looked at, though, it seems fine if the mandatory download simply fails without further penalty.

[AllenGould]

I'd agree with that assessment. And tweaking the text on time locations to be "any player may download" would cover the situations nicely, I think. (Probably with a clarification to rules that the active player gets first crack at the download, if that's not clear already.)

[Discovery suxs]

I'd agree with that assessment. And tweaking the text on time locations to be "any player may download" would cover the situations nicely, I think. (Probably with a clarification to rules that the active player gets first crack at the download, if that's not clear already.)

So you are saying decipher did halken council correctly.

https://www.trekcc.org/1e/index.php?mode=card&cardID=8