[SudenKapala]

How much of it was correct, when taking into account that in our local game environment, we play Decipher-era Open format?

If you're playing Decipher-era, then whatever you want to do is right. Just let the spirit of Kathy infuse you, and speak your local group's truth.

No, seriously. Please. If you've time, read my post and tell me where I go wrong by the old Decipher rules. Major Rakal cannot help me now -- but I suspect you can. We really want to play an official version of the game -- no house rules and no mistakes -- so it's a serious question for us.
Am I doing the right thing with allowing for things like interrupts in the end phase? And could you (back then) do things in-between the additional cards draws and the regular EOTCD? (Because above, I read that they're "connected into one action", or some such; and thus cannot be drawn apart in the way that I propose.)

Thx!

[AllenGould]

No, seriously. Please. If you've time, read my post and tell me where I go wrong by the old Decipher rules.

In all honesty, I don't know.
There's not a single "old Decipher rules set". Just like CC rules, they've evolved and changed over the years, so you'd have to pick a point in time. And then go track down whatever rules docs were in effect back then.

In my opinion, it's not worth the trouble - if you're looking for "official", use the current-day rules, if you're looking for "casual with your friends", just use whatever everyone agrees with.

[SudenKapala]

No, seriously. Please. If you've time, read my post and tell me where I go wrong by the old Decipher rules.

In all honesty, I don't know.

Thanks for trying!

There's not a single "old Decipher rules set". Just like CC rules, they've evolved and changed over the years, so you'd have to pick a point in time. And then go track down whatever rules docs were in effect back then.

We have picked, and did find. We play by the last-known Decipher rules -- anywhere between 2003 and 2008, but with all rules documents as recent as possible yet still authored or condoned by Decipher. I think I have them all; I downloaded the bulk of it from Decipher's website around 2008. But that doesn't mean I understand it all, or know where to find what. (

Wowbagger's comment, elsewhere -- that he wishes the Glossy to be half as thick and hyperlinked -- does ring true through the ages, it seems.

)

So, since many people here seem to have a grasp of the new AND the old, I would like to let my question stand -- since it is of big importance to the game. Was it possible, at any point in the game's life, to take actions in-between card draws during the EOT phase, if any such draws were generated as "aditional" or "extra" draws -- or are they strictly linked to the exact same moment as drawing the EOTCD?

In my opinion, it's not worth the trouble - if you're looking for "official", use the current-day rules, if you're looking for "casual with your friends", just use whatever everyone agrees with.

Sorry (and thanks for your suggestion, which I do understand!); but neither. In my group, the veteran players coincidentally but firmly agree that for our mutual purposes -- playing with our Traditional cards -- we should stick to the "old" rules. And I have ever felt, and will always feel, that such choices (if made consciously) do derserve some "support" from the community. (

In the mean time, I do see the need to persuade new/returning players to at least look at the new rules, if not outright force those unto them.

)

Which is not to say that I think it's easy to render such support; or that I expect you to abide; or that I don't understand that 99% of the efforts will (and must) go to contemporary rules questions*; or some such.

(*: Which is why I seldomly, if ever, have asked for an answer placed in "our" time frame.)

But I do think that this complex, still-living, game warrants all uses of its cards... even with dead -- but perfectly justifyable -- rules sets.

I'm an advocate of Infinite Diversity In Endless Possibilities. (IDEP.)

[9of24]

How much of it was correct, when taking into account that in our local game environment, we play Decipher-era Open format?

If you're playing Decipher-era, then whatever you want to do is right. Just let the spirit of Kathy infuse you, and speak your local group's truth.

No, seriously. Please. If you've time, read my post and tell me where I go wrong by the old Decipher rules. Major Rakal cannot help me now -- but I suspect you can. We really want to play an official version of the game -- no house rules and no mistakes -- so it's a serious question for us.
Am I doing the right thing with allowing for things like interrupts in the end phase? And could you (back then) do things in-between the additional cards draws and the regular EOTCD? (Because above, I read that they're "connected into one action", or some such; and thus cannot be drawn apart in the way that I propose.)

Thx!

I don't think the end of turn phase of the turn has had any changes in the CC era. You can confirm this by looking at the glossary entry for turn in your glossary. If you are using the most recent Decipher ruling documents, then the extra/additional draws would be happening with the normal card draw. Generally, Interrupts can/could not be played during the end of turn step unless they are responding to an eot action or have been downloaded.

[jadziadax8]

How much of it was correct, when taking into account that in our local game environment, we play Decipher-era Open format?

If you're playing Decipher-era, then whatever you want to do is right. Just let the spirit of Kathy infuse you, and speak your local group's truth.

[Ensign Q]

so, "scouting complete" is another thing happening at eot.
I suggest it happens at the beginning of the introduced "cleanup step", while probing happens in the beginnign of the "drawstep"

please dont derail this topic any further suden. We got that you dont want to leave 2001

[SudenKapala]

please dont derail this topic any further suden. We got that you dont want to leave 2001

Yeah, yeah.

You always want errata and change of the rules. I want things to stay the same. We each have our prerogative.

And that is what topics tend to do naturally, derail.

[Ensign Q]

please dont derail this topic any further suden. We got that you dont want to leave 2001

Yeah, yeah.

You always want errata and change of the rules. I want things to stay the same. We each have our prerogative.

And that is what topics tend to do naturally, derail.

I wonder how you have internet access in your cave Isnt this technology too progressive for you? Enjoy your fireplace and grilled bearsteak though.

[Discovery rox]

would it really be so bad if all of the things that happen at the end of your turn could happen in any order of the current players choosing?

then, add one more action that has to be the last thing that they do, and make that action be to say that my turn is done, its your turn now.

so that way the final final thing doesnt actually have to be the end of turn draw. instead it has to be your acknowledgement that your turn is over.

does that actually break anything?

[AllenGould]

Enjoy your fireplace and grilled bearsteak though.

Y'know, I could go for a grilled bear steak...

[AllenGould]

would it really be so bad if all of the things that happen at the end of your turn could happen in any order of the current players choosing?

then, add one more action that has to be the last thing that they do, and make that action be to say that my turn is done, its your turn now.

so that way the final final thing doesnt actually have to be the end of turn draw. instead it has to be your acknowledgement that your turn is over.

does that actually break anything?

The problem IMO is that it blurs the line between "during the turn" and "ending the turn". A lot of the examples involve rewinding - I went to end of turn, got to download something, and now I want to go back and do stuff with those new cards I just got into play.

Put simply, ending your turn should feel and play differently than "my turn part 2".

(Aside for folks reading the original question - I'm assuming that another member of the Pack is at Duck Blind, because otherwise Patrick couldn't download Surprise Party in the first place. )

[Discovery rox]

[quote="AllenGould"
The problem IMO is that it blurs the line between "during the turn" and "ending the turn". A lot of the examples involve rewinding - I went to end of turn, got to download something, and now I want to go back and do stuff with those new cards I just got into play.

Put simply, ending your turn should feel and play differently than "my turn part 2".
[/quote]

but is this any different from the reporting and card play phase of your turn already being different from your actions phase of your turn?

during the report phase you can report people for duty, including your free reports, and play a normal card play if you didnt use it on a normal report. then you can do things with those cards like fly around and do missions.

if you report a card and then have him move around and then say oh but that was my free report, now i want to do my normal report, your opponent will say no oh, you cant do that. you started executing actions so your reports are done. you cant rewind just because you want to.

the line isnt blurred between those phases and they do feel different. anyone who blurs those lines is just breaking th erules. likewise, how would that be any different from executing actions phase being different from end of turn actions phase?

my turn part 1: reporting cards and normal card play
my turn part 2: executing actions like flying ships, battling, doing missions

this is how we already do it. just add:

my turn part 3: end of turn actions like extra card draws, probing, and your normal end of turn draw. officially conclude by saying your turn is over.



so like i said, does anything actually break if the rules are changed to that? by break, i mean do any cards no longer work at all or are way too overpowered.

[9of24]

Edit: I was rereading some of the posts, and I think I may have had an incorrect impression of what Discovery Rox's suggested change was. I thought the suggestion was to allow non-eot actions in the eot phase. I see it was more so that all eot actions, including the normal card draw, be taken in any order. I don't really have a comment on that point. I think my response may serve some purpose, so rather than deleting the post I have hidden it.

so like i said, does anything actually break if the rules are changed to that? by break, i mean do any cards no longer work at all or are way too overpowered.

This seems like it shouldn't be a hard question to answer, but I think it is more complicated than it appears. First, there would have to be an idea of what overpowered meant. Then go through the roughly 200 interrupts currently in the game, each of which could potentially break with this new timing window. They would need to be looked at in combination with a swath of other cards from the game to determine if a problem would exist. Most are probably fine, maybe only a handful of them might cause a problem, if they do, do they get banned or errata to work under the new system. Then we would have to apply the same process to any Events, Incidents, Objectives, Personnel, Ships, Equipment, etc that have actions you can take. This can take a lot of time, so the payoff needs to be worth it. I'm not sure being able to take non-eot actions in the eot phase is worth that much time investment, but maybe it is. Fortunately it isn't a decision I have to make.

[Ensign Q]

I also would allow interrupts in the "cleanup" -step.
because its more intuitive.

But that might be an update for the whole timingblock of 1e, including rework of SD, so everything becomes interrupt-speed.

[JeBuS]

would it really be so bad if all of the things that happen at the end of your turn could happen in any order of the current players choosing?

"Bad" is subjective, I suppose. But I would say that making such a rule would eventually exacerbate the problems we are discussing today. It will create a larger space in which weird timing issues can and will happen.

Whereas, if we specify exactly in which order things occur, then there's no possibility for any future problems. (Or at least a much reduced complexity level for such.)