[Clerasil ToB]

Seek Hidden Reliquary

"... Once per game, you may download and seed here an artifact with "Vulcan" in title or lore. ..."

Is this wording enough to allow you to DL and seed an artifact at a space mission?

"Here" is absolutely clear - anywhere at this location, but does this gametext overrides the Glossary's entry regarding Artifacts? "Artifacts must be seeded during the dilemma phase, under planet missions only, unless a card allows or requires seeding at a space mission, ..."

Characterize Neutrino Emissions has the following game text: "Any number of Orb artifacts may seed here." - so in fact the same as SHR and we all know it is allowed to seed Artifacts there...

[pfti]

I cannot think of a reason this doesnt work...

But I am sure smarter minds will call me out

[Armus]

I cannot think of a reason this doesnt work...

But I am sure smarter minds will call me out

I think I can...

By rule artifacts can only seed at planet missions. The card text-specific exceptions are either on the artifact text itself or the mission text itself.

I can make a case that SHR allows you to seed the artifact at a space mission, but not that it creates an exception to the artifact seeding rule that would prevent such an artifact from being a misseed upon encounter.

I guess the broader question that needs answered is does a card that permits something to seed also allow that something to be encountered without being a misseed? As a secondary question, does the source of the card text matter?

I'll be the first to admit that it's entirely possible Jon is right and I'm wrong, but either way I'm not sure it's as clear as it could be.

[Spectre9]

I would say misseed.

[Kaiser]

What about The inner light then? Was this really created with the intention to make the player seed a cryosatellite there, too?

[Spectre9]

It may go back to the same memory rule that you had to have a doorway in play when you seed cards for when they're encountered as you might not still have one in play.

If Inner Light works then maybe you can seed artifacts at space missions as long as you remember there was a card that allowed you to seed it there.

[AllenGould]

Cryosatellite has the same phrasing, so it kinda *has* to let them seed at space...

[BCSWowbagger]

Cryosatellite has the same phrasing, so it kinda *has* to let them seed at space...

Cryosat explicitly overrides the "seed in space" rule in its first sentence, though.

This isn't an opinion that has been offered yet in the thread, but I tend to think, in my unofficial capacity, that Seek Hidden Reliquary would have to explicitly bypass both the "no downloading and seeding artifacts out of the blue" rule and the "no seeding artifacts in space" rule in order to seed download and seed an artifact in space. Right now, it only does the first one, which means SHR allows you to download and seed artifacts to planets only.

Another example of this principle at work: Kalenna has Internment Camp 371 in lore, so, by the gametext of I.C. 371, she may report there for free. Except she can't. First, I.C. 371 does not override the compatibility rule, so, as a reporting to a facility, she'll need a treaty. But even if you get Treaty: Romulan/Dominion into play (and good for you, nobody uses that card), you've still got Problem #2: the Quadrant Rule.

Kalenna is not , and the facility is not providing special reporting. (Facilities and sites, specifically, can't do that without explicit gametext saying so, which is why Wardroom and Where Opportunities Are Made are worded the way they are.)

So Kalenna actually can't report to I.C. 371. Even though the facility has given cards like her permission to do so, other interactions between her personnel card and the facility she'd be reporting to make it illegal, and neither card grants exceptions to those rules. By the same token, even though Seek Hidden Reliquary has given certain artifacts permission to download and seed at missions, other interactions between those artifacts and the target missions make it illegal, and neither card grants exceptions to those rules.

So, personally, I don't think this works. But that's not an official answer.

EDIT: Why, yes, is a forum icon now, thanks for asking.

[Armus]

Cryosatellite has the same phrasing, so it kinda *has* to let them seed at space...

Cryosat explicitly overrides the "seed in space" rule in its first sentence, though.

This isn't an opinion that has been offered yet in the thread, but I tend to think, in my unofficial capacity, that Seek Hidden Reliquary would have to explicitly bypass both the "no downloading and seeding artifacts out of the blue" rule and the "no seeding artifacts in space" rule in order to seed download and seed an artifact in space. Right now, it only does the first one, which means SHR allows you to download and seed artifacts to planets only.

Another example of this principle at work: Kalenna has Internment Camp 371 in lore, so, by the gametext of I.C. 371, she may report there for free. Except she can't. First, I.C. 371 does not override the compatibility rule, so, as a reporting to a facility, she'll need a treaty. But even if you get Treaty: Romulan/Dominion into play (and good for you, nobody uses that card), you've still got Problem #2: the Quadrant Rule.

Kalenna is not , and the facility is not providing special reporting. (Facilities and sites, specifically, can't do that without explicit gametext saying so, which is why Wardroom and Where Opportunities Are Made are worded the way they are.)

So Kalenna actually can't report to I.C. 371. Even though the facility has given cards like her permission to do so, other interactions between her personnel card and the facility she'd be reporting to make it illegal, and neither card grants exceptions to those rules. By the same token, even though Seek Hidden Reliquary has given certain artifacts permission to download and seed at missions, other interactions between those artifacts and the target missions make it illegal, and neither card grants exceptions to those rules.

So, personally, I don't think this works. But that's not an official answer.

EDIT: Why, yes, is a forum icon now, thanks for asking.

So wait.... did I stumble into an actually correct answer?

[pfti]

Cryosatellite has the same phrasing, so it kinda *has* to let them seed at space...

Cryosat explicitly overrides the "seed in space" rule in its first sentence, though.

This isn't an opinion that has been offered yet in the thread, but I tend to think, in my unofficial capacity, that Seek Hidden Reliquary would have to explicitly bypass both the "no downloading and seeding artifacts out of the blue" rule and the "no seeding artifacts in space" rule in order to seed download and seed an artifact in space. Right now, it only does the first one, which means SHR allows you to download and seed artifacts to planets only.

Another example of this principle at work: Kalenna has Internment Camp 371 in lore, so, by the gametext of I.C. 371, she may report there for free. Except she can't. First, I.C. 371 does not override the compatibility rule, so, as a reporting to a facility, she'll need a treaty. But even if you get Treaty: Romulan/Dominion into play (and good for you, nobody uses that card), you've still got Problem #2: the Quadrant Rule.

Kalenna is not , and the facility is not providing special reporting. (Facilities and sites, specifically, can't do that without explicit gametext saying so, which is why Wardroom and Where Opportunities Are Made are worded the way they are.)

So Kalenna actually can't report to I.C. 371. Even though the facility has given cards like her permission to do so, other interactions between her personnel card and the facility she'd be reporting to make it illegal, and neither card grants exceptions to those rules. By the same token, even though Seek Hidden Reliquary has given certain artifacts permission to download and seed at missions, other interactions between those artifacts and the target missions make it illegal, and neither card grants exceptions to those rules.

So, personally, I don't think this works. But that's not an official answer.

EDIT: Why, yes, is a forum icon now, thanks for asking.

The explicit text on cryosat only authorizes the seeding of the artifact itself. The language that lets the second artifact seed is only triggered on the word "here"

The same wording is on the inner light and characterizes neutrino emissions.
So i still think the president is strong that seed here overrides the planet restriction.

[Takket]

EDIT: Why, yes, is a forum icon now, thanks for asking.

Hey hey!

Ho ho!

These 2E icons got to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I for one welcome our new 1E forum icons, and hope all the others are replaces as well. And get this thing off my smilies list!!!!!!

[geraldkw]

EDIT: Why, yes, is a forum icon now, thanks for asking.

Hey hey!

Ho ho!

These 2E icons got to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I for one welcome our new 1E forum icons, and hope all the others are replaces as well. And get this thing off my smilies list!!!!!!

Strong agree!

[pfti]

We ever get a resolution to this?

[BCSWowbagger]

No, but I guess we ought to. I've stuck it on my draft agenda for September, which is going to be a zoo of an agenda.

[BCSWowbagger]

UPDATE: The Rules Committee has been anonymously asked to give a temporary "bluetext" ruling on this question while we deliberate over the next couple months, because the answer affects one or more tournaments that are upcoming or currently in progress.

Seek Hidden Reliquary

"... Once per game, you may download and seed here an artifact with "Vulcan" in title or lore. ..."

Is this wording enough to allow you to DL and seed an artifact at a space mission?

No. An artifact downloaded with Seed Hidden Reliquary must be seeded at a planet.

***

This ruling is official. It is binding in all sanctioned events, and it supersedes any and all contrary rulings by tournament directors, effective immediately. (Games already played are unaffected.)

This ruling is temporary. It is not fully fleshed-out, does not use final wording, and may be completely reversed in a regular First Monday rules update. If not resolved by the next First Monday, it will be republished in the Glossary's Temporary Rulings section.