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#521382
So, my confusion is whether I need a card or can I just move prisoners to locations and brigs at will? For example, if I capture an opponents card with Cardassian Trap or Cardassian Processing can I just scoop them with my personal present? Same as if I grab a crew with Abandon Ship?

There seem to be a series of cards that award me when I am escorting captives such as Hostage Trade and Labor Camp and I want to be sure to be playing it properly. Thanks!
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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#521408
When an opponent's personnel is captured:

1. If you have personnel anywhere at the location, the captured personnel is immediately relocated to your crew or Away Team.

2. If you do not have personnel there, then the captured personnel is placed beneath the card that caused the capture (the "trap card"), and is held there until you get personnel to the location. Once you get personnel there, you can either beam the captured personnel from the trap card to your personnel or go pick the captive up directly by being "present" with the captive.

Either way, the captive is "escorted" as long as the captive is with your personnel, and your escorts can move the captive like equipment.

Your opponent can rescue any captive left alone (no longer escorted) -- unless that captive is in a brig, in which case your opponent will need help from a card like Rescue Captives. (As a practical matter, brigs are almost useless.)

I hope that helps! General capture rules are found here: https://www.trekcc.org/op/1e_rulebook/#CAPTURE
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By Orbin (James Monsebroten)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#521425
BCSWowbagger wrote:When an opponent's personnel is captured:

1. If you have personnel anywhere at the location, the captured personnel is immediately relocated to your crew or Away Team.

2. If you do not have personnel there, then the captured personnel is placed beneath the card that caused the capture (the "trap card"), and is held there until you get personnel to the location. Once you get personnel there, you can either beam the captured personnel from the trap card to your personnel or go pick the captive up directly by being "present" with the captive.
Does this mean that if I have an awayteam on a planet where my opponent encounters Cardassian Processing and they fail that I get to capture my opponent's personnel and, since I have personnel there, that the dilemma isn't used as a "trap card" that holds my opponent's personnel and therefore, because it's an UNLESS dilemma that it gets reseeded?

- James M
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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President
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#521428
Orbin wrote:Does this mean that if I have an awayteam on a planet where my opponent encounters Cardassian Processing and they fail that I get to capture my opponent's personnel and, since I have personnel there, that the dilemma isn't used as a "trap card" that holds my opponent's personnel and therefore, because it's an UNLESS dilemma that it gets reseeded?
That's what the DRG says. See Alice, Impressive Trophies.

Interestingly, that is not what the Decipher DRG said. See: https://starshipexcelsior.com/othersite ... nguide.pdf

I'm uncertain when, why, or how this interpretation changed (possibly it was very recent), but it did change. Further research seems indicated.

Of course, the DRG is not the final authority on things. The DRG is sometimes wrong. True in 2002 and true today. The Glossary text controls, and its current text, as I read it, seems to agree with you and with the current DRG (not the old one).

For my part, I've don't think I've ever thought about this specific question before today, so consider this post mere opinion and my ears open to alternative arguments.
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By 9of24 (Jeremy Huth)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#521466
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Orbin wrote:Does this mean that if I have an awayteam on a planet where my opponent encounters Cardassian Processing and they fail that I get to capture my opponent's personnel and, since I have personnel there, that the dilemma isn't used as a "trap card" that holds my opponent's personnel and therefore, because it's an UNLESS dilemma that it gets reseeded?
That's what the DRG says. See Alice, Impressive Trophies.

Interestingly, that is not what the Decipher DRG said. See: https://starshipexcelsior.com/othersite ... nguide.pdf

I'm uncertain when, why, or how this interpretation changed (possibly it was very recent), but it did change. Further research seems indicated.

Of course, the DRG is not the final authority on things. The DRG is sometimes wrong. True in 2002 and true today. The Glossary text controls, and its current text, as I read it, seems to agree with you and with the current DRG (not the old one).

For my part, I've don't think I've ever thought about this specific question before today, so consider this post mere opinion and my ears open to alternative arguments.
Cardassian Processing wasn't in Decipher's drg. Alice and Impressive trophies would not be reseeded because they have the discard dilemma text.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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Community Contributor
#521484
9of24 wrote:Alice and Impressive trophies would not be reseeded because they have the discard dilemma text.
Ah, this is what I was overlooking. You're right. Also, the current DRG seems to overlook it -- for both cards. The DRG says to reseed them! So I guess I should go fix that.

I guess, then, that Cardassian Processing is actually doing something that no Decipher-era card did: capturing a personnel on a dilemma that has conditions and does not have "discard dilemma" (and thus the theoretical potential to reseed). From my brief search, it looks like it's still the only card that does this.

But, by the rules, I do think that is how it works.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
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#521494
BCSWowbagger wrote:
9of24 wrote:Alice and Impressive trophies would not be reseeded because they have the discard dilemma text.
Ah, this is what I was overlooking. You're right. Also, the current DRG seems to overlook it -- for both cards. The DRG says to reseed them! So I guess I should go fix that.

I guess, then, that Cardassian Processing is actually doing something that no Decipher-era card did: capturing a personnel on a dilemma that has conditions and does not have "discard dilemma" (and thus the theoretical potential to reseed). From my brief search, it looks like it's still the only card that does this.

But, by the rules, I do think that is how it works.
I fixed Alice. Impressive Trophies was already correct (said to discard).

:)
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
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#521497
BCSWowbagger wrote:
9of24 wrote:Alice and Impressive trophies would not be reseeded because they have the discard dilemma text.
Ah, this is what I was overlooking. You're right. Also, the current DRG seems to overlook it -- for both cards. The DRG says to reseed them! So I guess I should go fix that.

I guess, then, that Cardassian Processing is actually doing something that no Decipher-era card did: capturing a personnel on a dilemma that has conditions and does not have "discard dilemma" (and thus the theoretical potential to reseed). From my brief search, it looks like it's still the only card that does this.

But, by the rules, I do think that is how it works.
What would happen if my opponent attempts a mission (and has other personnel at the location not attempting the mission) and hits alien Parasites....... i take control and attempt the mission one person at a time ramming each of them into Cardassian Processing. My opponent basically "captures" and takes custody of their own personnel........ how does that work? Do they just get to free them on their next turn?
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By 9of24 (Jeremy Huth)
 - Delta Quadrant
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Counterpart
#521505
Takket wrote:What would happen if my opponent attempts a mission (and has other personnel at the location not attempting the mission) and hits alien Parasites....... i take control and attempt the mission one person at a time ramming each of them into Cardassian Processing. My opponent basically "captures" and takes custody of their own personnel........ how does that work? Do they just get to free them on their next turn?
That is an interesting situation I had not considered before. Ignoring Alien Parasites for a moment, consider the situation where my opponent captures and later Brainwashes my Data. I could later capture that Data, since I no longer control him and my opponent would have the option to play Rescue Captives to release that Data back to them. The wrinkle I'm not entirely sure how to iron out with Alien Parasites is that the control granted is temporary and to be frank I don't think the rules really lay out how to deal with that kind of change. Which is interesting since the base of the interaction has been available since Alternate Universe's release.

My instinct would be to say the captives in your scenario would still be captives after Alien Parasites has fully resolved, but it would be you, not your opponent, who could play Rescue Captives to release them because your opponent captured them. When released, I believe they would return to your opponent's control. But until this gets officially sorted, consult your TD ahead of time if you plan to use this interaction at an event.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
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#521577
9of24 wrote:
Takket wrote:What would happen if my opponent attempts a mission (and has other personnel at the location not attempting the mission) and hits alien Parasites....... i take control and attempt the mission one person at a time ramming each of them into Cardassian Processing. My opponent basically "captures" and takes custody of their own personnel........ how does that work? Do they just get to free them on their next turn?
That is an interesting situation I had not considered before. Ignoring Alien Parasites for a moment, consider the situation where my opponent captures and later Brainwashes my Data. I could later capture that Data, since I no longer control him and my opponent would have the option to play Rescue Captives to release that Data back to them. The wrinkle I'm not entirely sure how to iron out with Alien Parasites is that the control granted is temporary and to be frank I don't think the rules really lay out how to deal with that kind of change. Which is interesting since the base of the interaction has been available since Alternate Universe's release.

My instinct would be to say the captives in your scenario would still be captives after Alien Parasites has fully resolved, but it would be you, not your opponent, who could play Rescue Captives to release them because your opponent captured them. When released, I believe they would return to your opponent's control. But until this gets officially sorted, consult your TD ahead of time if you plan to use this interaction at an event.
The glossary does say you can never capture people you control...... so it would seem to me that the instant AP resolves that they would revert to my opponent's control, and thus not be captives anymore. Although to be REALLY technical about it the glossary says you cannot capture someone you control, but not that they can't REMAIN a captive if you later control them.

this is probably one of those weird quirk interactions that will never occur but...... its interesting to think about
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