[JeBuS]

@BCSWowbagger So to be less egregious about it, say something like my 15 Tepos all contribute their entire CUNNING to the mission requirements. The requirement is >32, so altogether, my 15 Tepos contribute to a total of 75, which is >32.

But either way, I'd still like to be pointed at the rule for contributing attributes to a requirement. (I have not made an exhaustive search, either.)

[eberlems]

1 Tribble would require more Tepos for cunning.

[JeBuS]

A related rule can be found in the dilemma glossary entry:

A requirement for multiples of a skill, such as "2 Navigation", may be met by two personnel with Navigation or by one personnel with Navigation x2.

So again, why can't my 33 Tepos contribute CUNNINGx1 to 33>32, or my 15 Tepos contribute CUNNINGx5 to 75>32?

Then there's helps:

A personnel helps solve a mission or helps complete an objective if they actively contribute a skill, attribute, or characteristic required by the mission or objective. Just being in the Away Team or crew is not "helping."

By bumping my CUNNING to 75, all 15 of my Tepos have "helped" contribute to a mission requirement.

And hey, there's meeting requirements:

You choose which personnel to use to meet mission and dilemma requirements. Any "excess" personnel are not required to apply their skills, etc. toward meeting the requirements.

Emphasis is mine. They may not be required to apply their attributes, but they're not prohibited, either. So why can't my excess Tepos also contribute?


On the flip side, there's this nugget about dual-personnel cards:

(They pool their CUNNING for the "If their CUNNING <15" clause.)

Yes, that's a very specific clause of the glossary, but it could suggest that the Cunning is inseparable from the personnel when meeting requirements. So a Tepo contributing his Acquisition is inseparable from his CUNNING contribution.

[JeBuS]

Anyway, to bring it back around to my original point, that 8th Tepo...

That way madness lies. It opens a door that would be really really bad to open. There is no rationale that says "the 8th is fine" that doesn't also say "the 35th is fine".

[Armus]

Anyway, to bring it back around to my original point, that 8th Tepo...

That way madness lies. It opens a door that would be really really bad to open. There is no rationale that says "the 8th is fine" that doesn't also say "the 35th is fine".

If your 35 Tepos can actually get past my dilemma combo at that mission (because if you're playing 35 Tepos you aren't playing anyone else), then I should take my loss and tip my cap.

As for the 7 Tepo issue, which is somewhat more plausible, I think the problem lies with Preserver Obelisk itself. AMS had it right by limiting it to skills instead of the more generic - and more wide open - "helps" which includes attributes. That's a bad design call with Universal "helpers" being a fairly common thing.

Maybe the errata/balance team can take this one up. Paging @SirDan and @JasonRed3 ...

[Mr.Sloan]

As for the 7 Tepo issue, which is somewhat more plausible, I think the problem lies with Preserver Obelisk itself. AMS had it right by limiting it to skills instead of the more generic - and more wide open - "helps" which includes attributes. That's a bad design call with Universal "helpers" being a fairly common thing.

Yeah a clarification here or change in rules or design to point out how it works and how it should work would be great.

[AllenGould]

I'm going to argue by example that all personnel *must* contribute relevant attributes, by pointing to Exe-Q-tioner, Q's Vicious Animal Things, and Quash Conspiracy (to pick three) - all of become either trivial if you get to stop counting attributes when you get to the number you want.

I'd say skills are probably the outlier, not the norm - and it might be worth relooking at exactly when a personnel "helps" with skills to try and line that up.

[JeBuS]

@AllenGould Skills aren't the problem in this particular situation, though. Attributes are. There don't appear to be any rules as to how one applies their attributes when "helping".

[Armus]

I'm going to argue by example that all personnel *must* contribute relevant attributes, by pointing to Exe-Q-tioner, Q's Vicious Animal Things, and Quash Conspiracy (to pick three) - all of become either trivial if you get to stop counting attributes when you get to the number you want.

I'd say skills are probably the outlier, not the norm - and it might be worth relooking at exactly when a personnel "helps" with skills to try and line that up.

I *know* that at one point I used Picard's Artificial Heart with Strength dilemmas to get a guaranteed kill of a choice person, but that was 20+ years ago at this point so who knows when the rule changed. (Also works great with Rogue Borg Mercenaries ping since you still have to calculate TOTAL strength for personnel battle).

However, I don't think the "ignore excess" rule applies when you're facing a "less than" requirement, as there's a consequence for going over, unlike, say Hanonian Land Eel where Strength 78 is just as good as Strength 51

[AllenGould]

@AllenGould Skills aren't the problem in this particular situation, though. Attributes are. There don't appear to be any rules as to how one applies their attributes when "helping".

My point is that skills are a bad precedent to use here, because I think it's the odd-ball situation where you pick and choose who does what. As I pointed out, there are multiple cards that just don't work if you can choose which people apply their attributes and which ones don't (and even more if we start entertaining the "Bob can apply a portion of their attributes").

[Takket]

The 15 Tepos does not work...........

Quoting the glossary under mission attempt:

A mission attempt lasts from the time you announce you are attempting the mission until one of the following occurs:

The mission is solved.

AND

A mission is solved, or completed, when the attempting crew or Away Team meets the mission requirements.

So when you are adding up your Tepos the moment you hit Cunning>32 you stop counting and the mission is solved. You can't choose to keep counting it just to "help" any more than I can keep counting my Acquisition personnel and saying they helped too.

The 35 tepos should work either because like BCS said it would blow up cards like ITPM.

So am I to understand though that 8 Tepos can solve his mission for 8*5=40 bonus points??? And can multiple Legates score 15 points each if they each have For Cardassia! played on them and solve HQ:SH?

[eberlems]

can you do "once per game" several times?

[AllenGould]

can you do "once per game" several times?

Sure, just not twice in the same game.

[Takket]

can you do "once per game" several times?

ah......................... never mind