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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
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#546595
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:14 pm https://www.trekcc.org/1e/index.php?mod ... ardID=2223

does he/she takes up so much more space than "they"?
appearently decipher did it right and the cc is not a good steward
It takes up more space, so why not use the shorter and clearer version?

Congrats on finding the *one* card that uses that construction, by the way. You'll note that it's from 2006's Enterprise Collection, which was published three years after they'd ended proper 1E support.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Moderator
#546613
And was made in the midst of Decipher's run of Second Edition, which uses that sort of construction. It's no wonder that Second Edition conventions would have been used in the making of The Enterprise Collection.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546614
shouldnt the cc use the latest updated wording? or are we going back to PAQ?
the promise was the game gets cleaned up and gets updated wordings.
now we are falling back in the middle ages? "15th century *cough*"

why are you defending a more confusing wording so much allen? "they" is obviously not "shorter and clearer"
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
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Prophet
#546664
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:51 pm In my opinion, "they" is obviously not "shorter and clearer"
I fixed that for you.

-crp
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#546672
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:51 pm why are you defending a more confusing wording so much allen? "they" is obviously not "shorter and clearer"
It's not confusing, unless you're still living in the 16th century.

And it is objectively shorter , unless you would like to share and explain your new and exciting counting method?
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
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2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#546678
Just because you don't like the idea of the word "they" being singular or plural doesn't mean it's wrong.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546684
AllenGould wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:11 am
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:51 pm why are you defending a more confusing wording so much allen? "they" is obviously not "shorter and clearer"
It's not confusing, unless you're still living in the 16th century.

And it is objectively shorter , unless you would like to share and explain your new and exciting counting method?
dude it is, maybe not in you peergroups, but nobody in the 20th century used they in singular.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546685
MidnightLich wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:55 am
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:51 pm In my opinion, "they" is obviously not "shorter and clearer"
I fixed that for you.

-crp
its not a fckin opinion. it IS confusing. are u guys out of your minds?
Last edited by Ensign Q on Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546686
Professor Scott wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:34 am
Iron Prime wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:09 am Not the best wording IMHO. Couldn't it be "all [Kli] Chancellors here are attributes +1" or something like that?

Not the worst either. I can live with it.

#LongLiveTheEmpire!
Agreed, I read this very differently....

If with your [Kli] chancellor, they are attributes all +1 ....

I read the they as plural. So I read this as:

If with your [Kli] chancellor, those present with are attributes all +1... meaning everyone one present with the Chancellor gets +1.

Apparently the they is supposed to be read as they singular meaning he or she so...

If with your [Kli] chancellor, that chancellor is attributes all +1....

They really should be replaced with it is...

If with your [Kli] chancellor, it is attributes all +1... but then according to English Language rules, that would infer that the equipment is +1 not the personnel.

How about:

While present, your [Kli] chancellor, is attributes all +1 and your [Kli] SECURITY present gain Leadership. May discard to prevent your chancellor present from being killed by a dilemma.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
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Prophet
#546688
Ensign Q wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:46 am
MidnightLich wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:55 am
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:51 pm In my opinion, "they" is obviously not "shorter and clearer"
I fixed that for you.

-crp
its not a fckin opinion. it IS confusing. are u guys out of your minds?
Seriously, are you okay? You're being very aggressive with everyone. Disagreeing is fine, and encouraged; doing it by calling names and being dismissive isn't. Everyone is welcome here, and I'd like it if you acted like you agreed.

-crp
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#546692
Ensign Q wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:45 am dude it is, maybe not in you peergroups, but nobody in the 20th century used they in singular.
"Every client got a care package delivered to them."
"They are from Texas and enjoy tacos."
"When my child cries, I hug them."
"Where a recipient of an allowance under section 4 absents themself from Canada ..." <= actual text of law
"Where is the TD? I have a rules question. Oh, they're over looking at the dice."
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546704
After having gotten used to it years ago, as a non-native I don't find the use of singular 'they' confusing at all anymore. Logically, I did, once -- it's a really strange thing for someone when they first come across it. Now, I often use it myself; i.e. about my players, to keep a distance and retain anonymity of people who've not given me express permission to mention them here. Such a player can introduce their gender themselves, if they wish it.
I've seen people do it with their kids (prolly for same reason) and I applaud and respect that.

Having seen this use for years -- if the subject's gender is unknown or not important -- I don't feel it has a political(ly) correct meaning, per se. And even so. I like politically correct.

Most of all, I have come to tegard it's use more formal, "distinguished" (in a good way), esthetically pleasing, and it makes for easier reading (for me). Don't do away with it, it would detract from the level of language used in our game.

Q: please just get used to this -- arguably not very logical, but ingrained -- element of the English language. (There are many more where that comes from; and you're bound to know and use many already.) And be proud / happy that you're still learning stuff.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#546705
Oh. Crap. Q doesn't read walls of text (well). :( ( :P )

Short version:
Ensign Q wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:45 am dude it is, maybe not in you peergroups, but nobody in the 20th century used they in singular.
This is bullshit. I often use it (look it up), and have done so, for... yes, decades. At least one decade. Not for PC/SJ reasons mainly; usually for anonimity or laziness. (No need to find "/" key.)
You know laziness.

The peer groups you refer to are probably more used to formal, and/or native, language.

Damn, now this became a wall of text of its own! :x

(But seriously, read my above post. :thumbsup: :cheersL: )
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#546706
At this point, the rules question has been answered and the thread is just arguing over they vs. he or she. Since that's not a rules question and the matter gets into politics disallowed on the General Forum, this thread is locked.

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