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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548286
who decided the points are lost at the location you dl they guys to? doesnt make much sense to me.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#548295
Ensign Q wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:15 pm who decided the points are lost at the location you dl they guys to? doesnt make much sense to me.
Recruit Mercenaries

Who said you lose the points where to DL them too? You DL them to your Treachery, then you lose 10 points.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#548306
Decipher, in 1999. It strikes me as reasonable.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548312
seems like a pure flavor reason, because you literally hand over 10 points to the personnel recruited.
it makes zero sense from a game rules perspective though, wish rules would reconsider it. ( gets rid of 2 glossary entries)
it doesnt target a location.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548347
But it does have an effect at a location, scoring points...
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#548356
at objective targeting a mission scores points at a location. or a dilemma like edo probe or Lockbox, but paying an extra cost for an event is usually not at any location.
in this case only because decipher handwaved it into the glossary.

i think a good rule of thumb is (similiar to refcards)
if a card has a glossary entry, it does something that conflicts with the basic elements of the game.
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North American OP Coordinator
By The Ninja Scot (Michael Van Breemen)
 - North American OP Coordinator
 -  
1E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E World Champion 2023
Tribbles World Champion 2022
The Traveler
1E North American Continental Champion 2023
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  Trek Masters 1E Champion 2024
1E American National Champion 2023
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2E Canadian National Champion 2023
2E  National Runner-Up 2023
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1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
2E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
#548371
The location is where the Treachery personnel that they're reporting to is on the spaceline as stated on the card - "Downloads [Non] and/or [Fer] Treachery personnel with up to 7 total • icons to where you have Treachery present." By designating that this is being played to a location your opponent has specified (where they have Treachery present.)

Because this was asked enough times, it even got its own entry in the Glossary - The negative points for this event are scored ("paid") at the location where you download the mercenaries.

Michael
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#548382
The Ninja Scot wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:07 pm The location is where the Treachery personnel that they're reporting to is on the spaceline as stated on the card - "Downloads [Non] and/or [Fer] Treachery personnel with up to 7 total • icons to where you have Treachery present." By designating that this is being played to a location your opponent has specified (where they have Treachery present.)

Because this was asked enough times, it even got its own entry in the Glossary - The negative points for this event are scored ("paid") at the location where you download the mercenaries.
In the context of the language of 1E, I don't think this is a slam-dunk argument. This card doesn't say it plays at a location. When that's the case, the default is generally "to the table". What this card says is that it has two effects. The first is to download personnel to a location . The second is to score points.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#548527
It is card pedantry that has been resolved by a clarifying rulling for aprox 2 decades. It was just used in a tournament recenently and came back up
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#548543
pfti wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:20 pm It is card pedantry that has been resolved by a clarifying rulling for aprox 2 decades. It was just used in a tournament recenently and came back up
It's one thing to say it was ruled correctly - it absolutely was.

It's another to call this pedantry. It's not at all intuitive that points are scored at that location, and the ruling is the only thing that makes it so.

To the contrary, this is the exact type of cutesy text that Decipher liked to use to give cards more of a Trek feel. While i get the intent to make the cards as "in universe" as possible, this is the exact kind of ruling that adds that Bad Complexity that makes people make the 1e face.

Personally, I wouldn't mind removing this card-specific ruling and either removing the Altonian Loophole (tm) or issuing clarifying errata to the card itself so it's clear that those points are "paid" at the location where the mercs show up.

Either way, it's less rules cruft, which I very rarely consider a bad thing.

:twocents:
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#548549
I've never liked the "points live at a particular location" mechanic Altonian put in, especially since it's so inconsistent.

Although maybe we just need to lean in, have the points be physical game objects and you have to win by getting 100 points together in one place? ;)
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#548550
AllenGould wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:33 pm I've never liked the "points live at a particular location" mechanic Altonian put in, especially since it's so inconsistent.

Although maybe we just need to lean in, have the points be physical game objects and you have to win by getting 100 points together in one place? ;)
Okay, this is what I was missing from the top post. It's not specifically a Recruit Mercenaries issue, it's an issue in combination with Altonian Brain Teaster. Gotcha.

-crp
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#548551
AllenGould wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:33 pm I've never liked the "points live at a particular location" mechanic Altonian put in, especially since it's so inconsistent.

Although maybe we just need to lean in, have the points be physical game objects and you have to win by getting 100 points together in one place? ;)
:thumbsup: . Altonian basically created the monster by having it negateable. It created a solution for a problem it invented. But the dichotomy exists and so every point scoring card has the question attached of "where am I scoring this? In play, or in the aether?" That's enough to put a player on notice that the answer may not be what you want to hear.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#548555
Hoss-Drone wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:37 pm
AllenGould wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:33 pm I've never liked the "points live at a particular location" mechanic Altonian put in, especially since it's so inconsistent.

Although maybe we just need to lean in, have the points be physical game objects and you have to win by getting 100 points together in one place? ;)
:thumbsup: . Altonian basically created the monster by having it negateable. It created a solution for a problem it invented. But the dichotomy exists and so every point scoring card has the question attached of "where am I scoring this? In play, or in the aether?" That's enough to put a player on notice that the answer may not be what you want to hear.
I will say I definitely like Altonian when it relates to things like AMS points. Just have the cards say (or at least strongly imply) what they mean so encyclopedic knowledge of Rules Arcana is the difference between winning and losing. Nobody likes that.
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