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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Architect
Community Contributor
#550378
In the physical game, we seed cards so that the next-encountered card is on the bottom, while the last-encountered card is on top.

In Lackey play, this is impractical, so we do the opposite.

But the idea of seeding only really made sense (to me) in Premiere, when the rules instructed players to flip over the entire pile when attempting the mission. This soon proved too cheat-prone, so the rule changed from "flip over the mission and all cards beneath it" to "slide out the bottom seed card and flip it." But wouldn't it be easier if we pulled out the top seed card instead of the bottom? You'd only have to lift up the mission to get to your next dilemma, not the mission plus all other seed cards. It certainly is easier in Lackey.

Is there a reason we kept the "seed order is bottom to top" convention after Decipher got rid of the "flip the whole mission over" rule?

Just afternoon ruminations. Several cards rely on the notion of a "bottom seed card" being the next one encountered, so this couldn't easily change even if I were inclined to change it (and I'm not. But I am quite curious).
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Counterpart
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2019
1E Austrian National Runner-Up 2020
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550391
Nah.

It works good in its respective format.

I've never known of any problems in physical games either flipping the stack over, or just pulling the bottom seed card. It feels a lot more natural that way :)
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 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#550392
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:32 pm Is there a reason we kept the "seed order is bottom to top" convention after Decipher got rid of the "flip the whole mission over" rule?
Probably just for backwards-compatibility - changing how they were revealed doesn't change what order the cards are encountered.

Also, I think it might be easier to lift the pile and slide under, rather than lift the mission (but not the top dilemma) when single-seeding?

Don't know either way for sure, but would wager on the former.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Socialite
#550394
For duplicate missions setting the stack easiest when you need to make sure the first encountered is correct.

There may be things on the mission which does make it harder to set it all aside to get that first dilemma. Lackey has made this perfectly clear.
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By Ausgang (Gerald Sieber)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E German National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550454
sexecutioner wrote:It works good in its respective format.

I've never known of any problems in physical games either flipping the stack over, or just pulling the bottom seed card. It feels a lot more natural that way :)
I also find it easier that way (in the physical game).
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Participant 2021
#550488
These. [Down] [Down]
Ausgang wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:33 am
sexecutioner wrote:It works good in its respective format.

I've never known of any problems in physical games either flipping the stack over, or just pulling the bottom seed card. It feels a lot more natural that way :)
I also find it easier that way (in the physical game).
(And funnily enough, doing it the other way around in Lackey now also comes naturally. Seems I can handle some things. :lol: )
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Architect
Community Contributor
#550682
AllenGould wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:07 pm Also, I think it might be easier to lift the pile and slide under, rather than lift the mission (but not the top dilemma) when single-seeding?
I like this answer best so far.

Again, I was just ruminating, and thanks for adding your thoughts.

(The real occasion for this thread is that I was trying to find where the rules documents actually define seeding as "put a card on the bottom of the pile, to be encountered next," and I got to thinking.)
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By WeAreBack
 - Alpha Quadrant
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#551336
Now that we mostly seed dilemmas for a single mission all at once, instead of the one at a time approach, the utility of revealing from the bottom is completely different than it was in Premiere.

That is, it's not to make playing easier, it's to make deck design, storage and set up easier. This is because the owner of the cards can easily flip through the dilemmas in the order that they will be encountered front to back when planning, storing and setting up.

This is because in 99% of games you can count on seeing at least 2 planet and 2 space missions, so you can usually have a "default" set up for your combos, keep them in order and set them down quickly. (Yes, maybe you see someone seed Insurrection or some other obvious go-to mission that makes you want to re-jig things, but at least you have your starting point.)

In fact, the thing I hate most about playing with Lackey is that I can't keep my dilemmas in the order I want them in my seed deck because of how the sorting by columns works.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Architect
Community Contributor
#551362
I like that explanation, too.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
Grand Nagus
2E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#551395
In 2E, I readily became accustomed to thinking of dilemma combos from back to front. It’s pretty easy to switch between the two ways of thinking, actually.

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