User avatar
 
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#551296
Hoss-Drone wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 pm then you need to say "may be nullified by any player when they encounter a different dilemma".
may be nullified by any player when they encounter a different dilemma
May be nullified by any player encountering another dilemma

Where are you planning to put those extra ten characters?

Not saying your version isn't clearer, but a clear card that doesn't fit on the card doesn't help. :)
User avatar
 
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Socialite
#551309
AllenGould wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:46 pm
Hoss-Drone wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 pm then you need to say "may be nullified by any player when they encounter a different dilemma".
may be nullified by any player when they encounter a different dilemma
May be nullified by any player encountering another dilemma

Where are you planning to put those extra ten characters?

Not saying your version isn't clearer, but a clear card that doesn't fit on the card doesn't help. :)
1e template problems is not my circus, not my monkeys. ;)

Would it really be that bad to encounter this after a dead End late game? If everyone can do it is that not fair?
User avatar
 
By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#551325
How much of the lore is relevant to anything? Don't we have a 4-line dilemma template?

If playtesting revealed that Dead End + BiJ = :( , then prioritize clearer wording and playtest data over lore and revise it.
"You! The one who is moving now!"
should fit quite nicely and still be plenty flavorful!
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#552282
Coming in late in the discussion. After watching Hoss-Drone's game with Maggie, am I correct in reading the Sheliak only goes off if the planet where the dilemma is encountered is at the very end of the space line? If that is the case, then how often does that happen in game where your opponent places one of their planets a the space line's end?
User avatar
Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
Grand Nagus
2E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#552284
Tyberius_Deangelo wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:34 pm Coming in late in the discussion. After watching Hoss-Drone's game with Maggie, am I correct in reading the Sheliak only goes off if the planet where the dilemma is encountered is at the very end of the space line? If that is the case, then how often does that happen in game where your opponent places one of their planets a the space line's end?
That's not quite true. If at the end of a turn the Sheliak stops at the planet it was encountered at, then it goes off. However, this didn't happen because Hoss-drone missed something about the new Sheliak - it no longer targets the original mission. In addition this rule about [Self] dilemmas is also important.
Rulebook wrote:When a [Self] card moves, it moves its full available RANGE toward the far end of the spaceline.
The Sheliak no longer targets the original mission like it did before, so when he seeded it where he did, it moved past the original mission. IIRC, my missions had the following spans:
Seeded [Down]
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

He seeded it at Exo III, shown above (sorry, spacing is weird on the icons). The far end of the spaceline was to the left.
[Down] started here
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

At the end of my turn, it moved a full RANGE of 6 to this location
My turn [Down]
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

At the end of his turn, it moved its full RANGE of 6 again, which meant it flew by Exo III.
Ended here [Down]
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

If he had seeded it instead at Mudd's Planet, which was the 2nd mission from the left, this would have been a whole different ballgame. It would have started at the right, moved 6 the first turn and at the end of his turn, would have hit Mudd's Planet because that's where it stops.

As I argued in the video, I played the online Masters with a Hirogen Obsession deck and never had a problem with finding a location on the spaceline where the Sheliak would hit. Kevin made a mistake in assuming that the Sheliak targets the original planet as the original did and that left him a little salty. :P
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#552289
jadziadax8 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:58 pm
Tyberius_Deangelo wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:34 pm Coming in late in the discussion. After watching Hoss-Drone's game with Maggie, am I correct in reading the Sheliak only goes off if the planet where the dilemma is encountered is at the very end of the space line? If that is the case, then how often does that happen in game where your opponent places one of their planets a the space line's end?
That's not quite true. If at the end of a turn the Sheliak stops at the planet it was encountered at, then it goes off. However, this didn't happen because Hoss-drone missed something about the new Sheliak - it no longer targets the original mission. In addition this rule about [Self] dilemmas is also important.
Rulebook wrote:When a [Self] card moves, it moves its full available RANGE toward the far end of the spaceline.
The Sheliak no longer targets the original mission like it did before, so when he seeded it where he did, it moved past the original mission. IIRC, my missions had the following spans:
Seeded [Down]
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

He seeded it at Exo III, shown above (sorry, spacing is weird on the icons). The far end of the spaceline was to the left.
[Down] started here
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

At the end of my turn, it moved a full RANGE of 6 to this location
My turn [Down]
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

At the end of his turn, it moved its full RANGE of 6 again, which meant it flew by Exo III.
Ended here [Down]
[4] [3] [3] [3] [3] [4]

If he had seeded it instead at Mudd's Planet, which was the 2nd mission from the left, this would have been a whole different ballgame. It would have started at the right, moved 6 the first turn and at the end of his turn, would have hit Mudd's Planet because that's where it stops.

As I argued in the video, I played the online Masters with a Hirogen Obsession deck and never had a problem with finding a location on the spaceline where the Sheliak would hit. Kevin made a mistake in assuming that the Sheliak targets the original planet as the original did and that left him a little salty. :P
Gotcha! Thanks, Maggie. That made a whole lot more sense in how the dilemma works!
User avatar
Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
Grand Nagus
2E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#552300
You're welcome @Tyberius_Deangelo!
User avatar
 
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Socialite
#552372
jadziadax8 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:58 pm Kevin made a mistake in assuming that the Sheliak targets the original planet as the original did and that left him a little salty. :P
More than a little . Toxic salt shock syndrome. :)
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#552385
Somewhat related to The Sheliak, I keep coming back to self-controlling dilemmas as some kind of templating puzzle. As in, I might agree with cutting down on new loaded icons and yet look at those dilemmas and go "Except you, you can use all of them."

In particular, "End of every turn" carves out a nice chunk of space, and then maaaaybe there could be one for "moves" since that is basically shorthand anyway and a visit to the rulebook to figure out how they move.

Can't say I feel too strongly about this coming to fruition because still the desire is there to not have new icons made as game text shorthand. Just something teasing my mind I guess, or if not with icons maybe some other templating magic.

Opening ceremonies underway.

Balance Team Update?

They should know when it these things come out. […]

Definitely seems interesting. I would need time […]

I'm so bad at this game...

I'm so bad at this game that, if I ever bothered t[…]