By Kova4H9
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#557180
Alright, here's a weird scenario:

Suppose I have Dr. Soong, Lore, Revised Seven of Nine, and One sitting on an outpost. At end of turn, since Dr. Soong and Lore are together on the outpost, Lore kills Dr. Soong using their nemesis icons. But alas! Revised Seven of Nine suspends play to special download Nanoprobe Resuscitation to revive Dr. Soong and report him to One's [SCC] icon. However, now Lore and Dr. Soong are together again. Does Lore kill Dr. Soong again?

(I have a related question, but I may or may not mention it depending on the answer to this.)
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North American OP Coordinator
By The Ninja Scot (Michael Van Breemen)
 - North American OP Coordinator
 -  
1E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E World Champion 2023
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1E North American Continental Champion 2023
2E North American Continental Champion 2023
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2E Canadian National Champion 2023
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1E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2023
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#557182
Kova4H9 wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:58 pm Alright, here's a weird scenario:

Suppose I have Dr. Soong, Lore, Revised Seven of Nine, and One sitting on an outpost. At end of turn, since Dr. Soong and Lore are together on the outpost, Lore kills Dr. Soong using their nemesis icons. But alas! Revised Seven of Nine suspends play to special download Nanoprobe Resuscitation to revive Dr. Soong and report him to One's [SCC] icon. However, now Lore and Dr. Soong are together again. Does Lore kill Dr. Soong again?

(I have a related question, but I may or may not mention it depending on the answer to this.)
This special download doesn't work as Revised Seven of Nine's special download's text states - (targeting an [1E-AU] card)

Michael
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By sexecutioner (Niall Matthew)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E World Runner-Up 2023
1E European Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
1E British National Second Runner-Up 2023
#557184
The Ninja Scot wrote:
Kova4H9 wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:58 pm Alright, here's a weird scenario:

Suppose I have Dr. Soong, Lore, Revised Seven of Nine, and One sitting on an outpost. At end of turn, since Dr. Soong and Lore are together on the outpost, Lore kills Dr. Soong using their nemesis icons. But alas! Revised Seven of Nine suspends play to special download Nanoprobe Resuscitation to revive Dr. Soong and report him to One's [SCC] icon. However, now Lore and Dr. Soong are together again. Does Lore kill Dr. Soong again?

(I have a related question, but I may or may not mention it depending on the answer to this.)
This special download doesn't work as Revised Seven of Nine's special download's text states - (targeting an [1E-AU] card)

Michael
So what if we exchange Lore and Soong for a couple of Excalbians, who have [1E-AU]
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#557188
I don't think this accomplishes anything.

You're in the end of turn phase, resolving nemesis icons is a required action if the condition (two opposite icons present together) exists.

So you execute the mandatory action, discard one nemesis card, action complete, condition resolved.

You can suspend play and Nanoprobe, but all that does is re-create the condition and lead to another mandatory end of turn action that needs to be resolved.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#557190
This question is so esoteric (and, in practice, irrelevant, right? you could avoid the issue by simply waiting for opponent's start-of-turn to do the Nanoprobe Resuscitation, and I advise doing so)...

...that I really want to hear the related question, where I suspect the real substance is probably hiding.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#557192
I suspect it would be moot. Your opponent will get to choose at the end of their turn before you can separate them.

rulebook entry
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By tomek
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#557250
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:30 pm This question is so esoteric (and, in practice, irrelevant, right? you could avoid the issue by simply waiting for opponent's start-of-turn to do the Nanoprobe Resuscitation, and I advise doing so)...

...that I really want to hear the related question, where I suspect the real substance is probably hiding.
My son is doing his best to disguise what I did...

Let me get it a little closer to what happened. It wasn't Soong and Lore, but let's use Soong and Lore anyway.

Lore tries to kill Soong at end of turn.
Instead of being killed, Soong becomes a Valuable Prisoner.
Number One suspends play to Rescue Soong and immediately bring him back to the OP with Lore.
Since Lore never succeeded in killing Soong during the eot, does Lore try again if Soong comes back during the end of the same turn?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#557253
tomek wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:40 am
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:30 pm This question is so esoteric (and, in practice, irrelevant, right? you could avoid the issue by simply waiting for opponent's start-of-turn to do the Nanoprobe Resuscitation, and I advise doing so)...

...that I really want to hear the related question, where I suspect the real substance is probably hiding.
My son is doing his best to disguise what I did...

Let me get it a little closer to what happened. It wasn't Soong and Lore, but let's use Soong and Lore anyway.

Lore tries to kill Soong at end of turn.
Instead of being killed, Soong becomes a Valuable Prisoner.
Number One suspends play to Rescue Soong and immediately bring him back to the OP with Lore.
Since Lore never succeeded in killing Soong during the eot, does Lore try again if Soong comes back during the end of the same turn?
The short answer is yes, per the logic I outlined above.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#557254
I'm sincerely uncertain, because I don't think there's precedent for it. You might argue that Armus is right and it's a mandatory action that has to keep happening as long as the conditions for it are met; you might also argue that it's a mandatory action that has to be initiated once per end-of-turn phase, and, once it's been done, you've met your obligation for the turn. Suspends-play timing is stupid and confusing, news at 11.

I think the most convenient answer (for me personally) is probably: just wait until opponent's start-of-turn before you download Rescue Captives. You still get your card back, but you avoid the rules question.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#557256
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:27 am I'm sincerely uncertain, because I don't think there's precedent for it. You might argue that Armus is right and it's a mandatory action that has to keep happening as long as the conditions for it are met; you might also argue that it's a mandatory action that has to be initiated once per end-of-turn phase, and, once it's been done, you've met your obligation for the turn. Suspends-play timing is stupid and confusing, news at 11.

I think the most convenient answer (for me personally) is probably: just wait until opponent's start-of-turn before you download Rescue Captives. You still get your card back, but you avoid the rules question.
As Winterflames pointed out, though, that doesn't necessarily solve the problem. From the rulebook:
If two or more personnel or ships with opposing nemesis icons are present with each other at the end of any turn, the player whose turn it is must choose one of them to be immediately killed (personnel) or destroyed (ships). This is not a battle.
So yeah you can duck the obvious rules question, but you still lose one of them before you can separate them, only now it's your opponent's choice!

I'd also argue that this rulebook entry supports my condition -> Mandatory Action logic and since your suspend play action doesn't get you out of the end-of-turn phase, you still gotta do it!

Better Answer: Have two outposts, and target the other one with your Rescue Captives. Then your nemesis people aren't present with each other and the entire mess is avoided. :wink:

That's some sweet tech there, @tomek ... I may "borrow" that idea... :shifty:
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