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By Dukat (Andreas Rheinländer)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
1E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
1E German National Runner-Up 2024
#560229
Hi guys,

quick question.

In order to use the 'kill one personnel' option on The Art Of Diplomacy, I need a Mirror, Maquis, Resistance or Orion personnel. Right?

Does that personnel ALSO need a hand weapon to make use of the card's 'kill one personnel' option?
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#560231
I'm gonna go with yes, since the and portion starts with May, the portion before the may applies to both mays equally.
Last edited by winterflames on Mon May 23, 2022 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#577578
Dukat wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:03 am Hi guys,

quick question.

In order to use the 'kill one personnel' option on The Art Of Diplomacy, I need a Mirror, Maquis, Resistance or Orion personnel. Right?

Does that personnel ALSO need a hand weapon to make use of the card's 'kill one personnel' option?
Don't forget Revised Janeway extends TAoD to [1E-AU] [Fed] [Holo]
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#577581
eberlems wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:29 pm And to complete the cardlist that extends: Proconsul Neral (extends effects to [Rom])
Good catch!
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By Enabran
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E Austrian National Second Runner-Up 2022
#593678
I am sure the answer to your second question is NO. When the source of an effect is gone, the effect is gone.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#593685
Enabran wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:39 am I am sure the answer to your second question is NO. When the source of an effect is gone, the effect is gone.
Unless it's a "once in play" effect, such as on Mortal Q, Commander Charvanek and The Earring of Li Nalas.

So the question is whether those extra clauses on Neral and Janeway's downloads create a similar effect.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#593701
The way I read it, Neral and Janeway extend the effects of TAoD to their respective groups while they're in play. If they leave play, so does their effect.

It's not as clear, but I also read them as extending their effects to all copies of TAoD the player has in play, not just the one copy they downloaded. The download is of a specific card, with a specific title, but the extending effects text references just the title, not the specific card. If they were just referencing that specific copy they would say "Extends its effects to [group]."

Granted that's an inference, but that's how I'd rule it at a tournament if the question came up until and unless somebody else gives me a reason to change my position.

Hope that helps.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#593747
Armus wrote:The way I read it, Neral and Janeway extend the effects of TAoD to their respective groups while they're in play. If they leave play, so does their effect.
This is correct. It does not say "once in play," so its effect is not permanent.
It's not as clear, but I also read them as extending their effects to all copies of TAoD the player has in play, not just the one copy they downloaded.
I'm not sure we have to resolve this question, because I don't think it makes a functional difference.

Imagine that I have some [Maq], some [1E-Rom] and one copy of TAoD in play. My [Maq] using a hand weapon can use 2 Treach as 1 Dip. My [1E-Rom] cannot.

Then I play Proconsul Neral. Nothing changes at this time. Neral has not yet activated his download, so the gametext attached to the download hasn't activated, either.

Then I activate Proconsul Neral's download. I now have two copies of TAoD in play. The copy I just downloaded allows both my [Maq] and my [1E-Rom] with a hand weapon to use 2 Treach as 1 Dip. The copy I already had on the table might now work on the [1E-Rom] and it might not -- but who cares? The downloaded copy is already having the full effect, and it's not like having two copies doing the same thing doubles the effect or something. The cumulative rule prevents that.

If you later discard one of the copies, it can be safely assumed that the copy you discarded is the one that was originally in play (the one that may not be having the full effect), so you'll continue to enjoy the full Proconsul Neral TAoD benefits.

If you discard both -- or if Neral dies -- then the effect ends anyway. The answer to this question just doesn't matter, because Neral has to download TAoD to turn the text on in the first place.

I suppose there's a weird edge case where Neral uses his download, all copies of TAoD discard, Neral stays alive, and you RE-PLAY TAoD, but that's enough of a weird corner case that it seems fair to leave it to the interpretation of the local judge for the time being. (That said, I do find your interpretation of it plausible.)
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#593758
For what it's worth: I've always read those abilities as scribbling some extra text on the particular copy that's downloaded.
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