#561109
This is my understanding of the rule as it currently is. But for the sake of fairness, this reading of the rules has some wackiness in it. For example: checking conditions happens at initiation (step 1), and a response negating a condition does not stop the action unless it is a hidden agenda (Glossary, "actions - step 2: responses modifying targets or conditions"). So, if I have Anya already in play, I can start to play Salia from my hand, and (during the responses phase) use Anya to download *another* Salia. The first Salia is not yet in play, and so Anya's download is validly initiated. Furthermore, this has no effect on my original Salia play -- even though the condition "if you have in a play a version of a given persona, you may not bring another into play" is no longer met, we're past initiation and it's too late: both Salias resolve.
pfti wrote: If we are talking about writing rules for clarity, we should not hold onto old definitions as the goal, but rather look for what is consistent and clear (which is not that some cards impact the game without being in play.I'm not opposed to updating the rule, but this thread has roamed around a lot and ranged from "what do the current rules say", to "how can we better explain the current rules", to "how should we clarify the current rules or make them more consistent, even if it means changing definitions," and these are three separate conversations. I've only been focusing on the first of these and have not thought about the others. JeBuS, if we've been taling past each other perhaps this is why.
pfti wrote: I also don't like cards impacting the game from outside play, down that road lies madness.I get this, but my reading is that what is impacting the game is not an "in play" card, but an action (which to be initiated, requires you to have the card in your hand -- so the card isn't influencing the game out of literally nowhere), and it is this action which compels you to announce targets and pay costs, allows responses, and so forth, with the card only entering play once this action fully resolves. The game isn't influenced by a card in the aether, but by an action initiated by a card in your hand that you are trying to play.
This is my understanding of the rule as it currently is. But for the sake of fairness, this reading of the rules has some wackiness in it. For example: checking conditions happens at initiation (step 1), and a response negating a condition does not stop the action unless it is a hidden agenda (Glossary, "actions - step 2: responses modifying targets or conditions"). So, if I have Anya already in play, I can start to play Salia from my hand, and (during the responses phase) use Anya to download *another* Salia. The first Salia is not yet in play, and so Anya's download is validly initiated. Furthermore, this has no effect on my original Salia play -- even though the condition "if you have in a play a version of a given persona, you may not bring another into play" is no longer met, we're past initiation and it's too late: both Salias resolve.
Last edited by Rachmaninoff on Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.