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By geraldkw
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#567631
Simplify capturing rules for holograms. There is no reason a "trap card" can't hold them.

It can still be required to have a holodeck equipped place for the opponent to put them when they move them from the trap card, but since traps can take conceptually any form there is no reason a trap card can't hold them and it's less confusing (and less frustrating to new players facing holograms).
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#567684
geraldkw wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:15 pm Simplify capturing rules for holograms. There is no reason a "trap card" can't hold them.

It can still be required to have a holodeck equipped place for the opponent to put them when they move them from the trap card, but since traps can take conceptually any form there is no reason a trap card can't hold them and it's less confusing (and less frustrating to new players facing holograms).
I'm going to dance on the edge of game sense vs. trek sense with this argument...

So that absolutely make sense when the Hologram has a mobile emitter (in any case) or is on a planet with holo-projectors. If the trap card is on the planet, and holograms can exist on the planet, then they should be held with the trap card.

Now, what about in space? Say, with Cardassian Processing?

Once you move the hologram onto the trap, they are no longer with the ship and there is nothing to project them. In the literal sense, where are they? What is stopping them from deactivating?

For that matter what happens to a flesh and blood person like Wesley Crusher? He's at a space location and he's no longer on a ship. If he's floating in space, he dies. Does the trap card imply that there some "Bobs" like the people operating the transporters on your empty ship that are providing a ship with a breathable atmosphere and some guards to keep Wesley held there? And if so, back to the holograms, would the trap now also need to imply there is a holodeck provided to keep the hologram active for me to come and take into custody?

I know some of these questions are more trek sense then game sense, and if the rules just say "the personnel is held by the trap, so the logistics of it are irrelevant", that's fine......
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#567853
geraldkw wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:15 pm Simplify capturing rules for holograms. There is no reason a "trap card" can't hold them.

It can still be required to have a holodeck equipped place for the opponent to put them when they move them from the trap card, but since traps can take conceptually any form there is no reason a trap card can't hold them and it's less confusing (and less frustrating to new players facing holograms).
So in a sense you'd like trap cards to function like Ghostbuster's floor trap thingys.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#567854
It's probably one of those things that will be an utter headache when we try to track down all the places where it's mentioned, but I suspect nothing would actually break if we just assumed that capturing a hologram includes stealing the USB stick with Doctor.holo on board.
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By geraldkw
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#567878
AllenGould wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:22 pm It's probably one of those things that will be an utter headache when we try to track down all the places where it's mentioned, but I suspect nothing would actually break if we just assumed that capturing a hologram includes stealing the USB stick with Doctor.holo on board.
I mean it can be some Tachyon Matrix (insert more technobabble) thing. I'm sure the Enterprise computer and if not that certainly Data or Lore or some of these other geniuses could come up with a way to capture holograms in like 6 seconds if needed.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#567883
Trap cards already have some really weird story going on. Not that hard to adapt it to holograms.

Abandon Ship - the holoprogram is in the escape pod's memory banks
Alice - the holoprogram is downloaded into Alice's matrix
Attack of the Drones - the isolytic tags enable a data transfer
Cardassian Processing - I can't figure out how this card's story works even for organics
Cardassian Trap - the Cardassians trapped the holoprogram
Impressive Trophies - the Hirogen steal the most impressive isolinear chips
Kidnappers - the Circle broke into a computer database
No Mention of Crime - con artists conned the hologram into giving away his own command codes, whoops
Now Would Be A Good Time - he can't just dematerialize because it would expose this primitive culture to advanced technology (wasn't this the actual plot as well?)
Restricted Area - I don't understand the story on this one, either. 2E conversions, man. What was going on?
Underestimating the Founders - don't underestimate the Founders; they actually CAN capture your holograms
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#567893
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:42 am Now Would Be A Good Time - he can't just dematerialize because it would expose this primitive culture to advanced technology (wasn't this the actual plot as well?)
I thought the actual plot there was that there was too much radiation interference from the nuclear reactors to get a stable transporter lock, especially given the Bounty's precarious power situation.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#567897
nobthehobbit wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:00 am
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:42 am Now Would Be A Good Time - he can't just dematerialize because it would expose this primitive culture to advanced technology (wasn't this the actual plot as well?)
I thought the actual plot there was that there was too much radiation interference from the nuclear reactors to get a stable transporter lock, especially given the Bounty's precarious power situation.
+1
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#567924
Why didn't they beam him out of the hospital, then?

I know I should just go check the darn transcripts. Been too long.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#567932
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:53 pm Why didn't they beam him out of the hospital, then?

I know I should just go check the darn transcripts. Been too long.
For this one, IIRC, the guards had taken away Chekov's equipment (which would probably be the easiest way to get a lock in a crowded area; no need to filter out biosigns, especially when you're dealing with Klingon transporters trying to pick out one human among many) so a rescue operation was needed, both to get something there to lock on to (say, Kirk's phaser) and to recover the confiscated materiel.

Kirk, McCoy, Chekov and Taylor were then beamed out of the hospital, specifically the elevator.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#567943
BCSWowbagger wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:45 pm :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
All that is to say, the trap aspect of NWBAGT is the high levels of radiation preventing the beamout. Which would probably also apply to attempting to beam out a hologram, never mind that the radiation might interfere with whatever's projecting the hologram, making it even harder to lock on.
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