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enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:38 am
by Ensign Q
any final resolution?

is Rachel Garrett a U.S.S. Enterprise-related personnel?

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:48 am
by KazonPADD
No. USS Enterprise-C does not equal USS Enterprise.

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:52 am
by Ensign Q
why?
cards that have that exact title followed by a colon, dash, or the numeral "II" are equivalent to that card title.

do you answer by rules or by intent?

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:56 am
by KazonPADD
See named in lore in Glossary. It’s equivalent to naming Mr Brunt in lore, which doesn’t include naming Brunt in lore.

To be fair, an explicit Enterprise example would be useful there, for exactly this type of question, as it’s been asked before.

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:12 am
by Ensign Q
so can picard report to the -c with Finest Crew in the Fleet?

mr brunt is not in the colon rule

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:13 am
by Armus
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:12 am so can picard report to the -c with Finest Crew in the Fleet?

mr brunt is not in the colon rule
No. The U.S.S. Enterprise and the U.S.S. Enterprise-C are two different ships with two different titles (though they are both Enterprises for things like Wall of Ships). The colon rule does not apply.

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:28 am
by patrick
Armus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:13 amThe colon rule does not apply.
Is there an explanation somewhere that tells me when the colon rule applies, and when it doesn't? Because it's not clear to me. Is it "doesn't count for named-in-lore' ?

Also, can't we errata the cards that use a dash instead of a colon? I think that should prevent some of the confusion...

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm
by Ensign Q
Armus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:13 am
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:12 am so can picard report to the -c with Finest Crew in the Fleet?

mr brunt is not in the colon rule
No. The U.S.S. Enterprise and the U.S.S. Enterprise-C are two different ships with two different titles (though they are both Enterprises for things like Wall of Ships). The colon rule does not apply.
but why?
its not enterprise C, but enterprise dash C

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm
by winterflames
This is going to sound stupid and pedantic, but this is where pedantry actually matters. It isn't a dash. It is a hyphen, indicating a Compound word. That card isn't the U.S.S. Enterprise - C. The card is U.S.S. Enterprise-C. The Enterprise and the C are one word, not 2 different Clauses like the armus or clown dilemmas.

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:34 pm
by Ensign Q
winterflames wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm This is going to sound stupid and pedantic, but this is where pedantry actually matters. It isn't a dash. It is a hyphen, indicating a Compound word. That card isn't the U.S.S. Enterprise - C. The card is U.S.S. Enterprise-C. The Enterprise and the C are one word, not 2 different Clauses like the armus or clown dilemmas.
wtf?

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:37 pm
by AllenGould
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:34 pm
winterflames wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:08 pm This is going to sound stupid and pedantic, but this is where pedantry actually matters. It isn't a dash. It is a hyphen, indicating a Compound word. That card isn't the U.S.S. Enterprise - C. The card is U.S.S. Enterprise-C. The Enterprise and the C are one word, not 2 different Clauses like the armus or clown dilemmas.
wtf?
Some reference material (from Grammarly, because it was the top link that didn't look like a Proper Style Guide)

Short version is: dashes and hyphens are different things that just annoying look fairly similar. Borrowing an example from the link, it's the difference between "dog-friendly" and "dog - friendly"

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:39 pm
by Ensign Q
where are those different things on the keyboard?
space hyphen space is a dash?

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:45 pm
by AllenGould
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:39 pm where are those different things on the keyboard?
space hyphen space is a dash?
depends - did you want an en dash or an em dash?

Seriously - this gets *super* into the weeds of grammar and type-setting - it's like the literary equivalent of action timing.

The link I gave is probably the simplest answer someone *can* give that doesn't point you at a proper Style Guide.

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:57 pm
by Johannes Mette
Troll go home to your cave...

Re: enterprises and colon?

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:54 pm
by winterflames
To be fair, I did spend 3 years in university as an English Literature Major. Before I spent 2 years as an Anthropology Major, then quit because we got pregnant and "money - now" became much more important than "degree - later." You know what they say, "You don't change horses mid-stream," but I didn't listen.

Hyphen versus Dash is one of those things you only get wrong once per professor. (Some just don't care. But Dr. Stayton did. And I had her for 7 classes over 4 semesters.)