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By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#573163
If I have Sisters of Duras on a Trading post and no Treaties, can I download Admiral Riker with Going to the Top? I.e., is FTP sufficient to make those personnel compatible according to GTTT?
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#573171
PantsOfTheTalShiar wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:46 pm If I have Sisters of Duras on a Trading post and no Treaties, can I download Admiral Riker with Going to the Top? I.e., is FTP sufficient to make those personnel compatible according to GTTT?
Short answer, no. You need 2 [Cmd] to play GTTT, and they are 2 [Stf]. That said, I am not sure what the answer would be if they were 2 [Cmd].
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By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#573172
Professor Scott wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:30 am
PantsOfTheTalShiar wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:46 pm If I have Sisters of Duras on a Trading post and no Treaties, can I download Admiral Riker with Going to the Top? I.e., is FTP sufficient to make those personnel compatible according to GTTT?
Short answer, no. You need 2 [Cmd] to play GTTT, and they are 2 [Stf]. That said, I am not sure what the answer would be if they were 2 [Cmd].
Okay so replace the Sisters with Lursa and B'etor or Sons of Mogh or whomever.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#573174
GTTT + compatibility timing have caused soooo many questions/problems over the years, so I'm not at all certain of this...

...but I am inclined to say "no." I think they become compatible upon arrival. Most Treaties establish compatibility during the initiation step of reporting (per the Start of Control ruling), but FTP is such a local effect, I think it's strictly local to personnel who have finished reporting or who are in the resolution step of reporting. GTTT needs them to be compatible at initiation, well before they land on the FTP and start enjoying its compatibility effect.

Not an official ruling. I waffled back and forth twice even while writing this reply. I look forward to seeing how this thread develops.
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By PantsOfTheTalShiar (Jason Tang)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#573179
Yeah unfortunately I am leaning towards the "no" interpretation also. :( I should have thought to ask this either two weeks ago or not at all.

I guess follow up is does the personnel "compatible" refer to just the [Cmd] personnel or also the facility? In the past I had interpreted it as just the personnel needing to be compatible.

Thanks for the response, and at this point don't worry too much about these questions, because at this point it's too late for my deck to come together regardless.

BTW, while researching this, I noticed every mention of GTTT in the glossary is out of date (refers to returning personnel to hand) and the Start of Control note in the Rulebook uses Continuing Mission as an example, but CM specifically says that it grants the icons to cards even if not in play.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#573190
PantsOfTheTalShiar wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:39 am Yeah unfortunately I am leaning towards the "no" interpretation also. :( I should have thought to ask this either two weeks ago or not at all.

I guess follow up is does the personnel "compatible" refer to just the [Cmd] personnel or also the facility? In the past I had interpreted it as just the personnel needing to be compatible.

Thanks for the response, and at this point don't worry too much about these questions, because at this point it's too late for my deck to come together regardless.

BTW, while researching this, I noticed every mention of GTTT in the glossary is out of date (refers to returning personnel to hand) and the Start of Control note in the Rulebook uses Continuing Mission as an example, but CM specifically says that it grants the icons to cards even if not in play.
I don't know the answer to the OP, but I will say that yes, the person you download has to be compatible with the facility as well, because if they aren't, they go into house arrest, and you cannot voluntarily put someone in house arrest.

As for the original question, I would say yes, IMO. A treaty is a global effect granting compatibility, FTP is a local one, I don't see why global vs local should matter. Same as if I were to play Planet of Galactic Peace on some mission. I had never heard of "Start of Control", went it read it, I don't see what that matters. That ruling doesn't say anything about compatibility.

In fact that ruling is kind of nonsense for the scenario it is even using as an example. It says as soon as you declare you are playing Calloway you immediately "start control" of her and she gains [1E-TNG] so you can play her for free. That isn't even needed because CM already says "even if not in play". So she has [1E-TNG] in my hand, my Q's tent, my draw deck, and anywhere else she might be whether i "declare i'm playing her" or not.

But back to the original point, if "Start of Control" is supposedly when I start looking around to see where I can play someone, and checking compatibility, then the text of FTP, just as the next of PoGP or any treaty, should be relevant to that check.

"Okay I'm playing Calloway now, I have this Fed person i am starting to control. She can enter play at my Fed outpost, because they are matching, or my Deep Space Nine because my Fed/Baj treaty's global gametext makes her compatible with the station, or my Ferengi Trading Post because that card's local gametext makes her compatible with the FTP itself, as well as the [Kli] Gowron and [Dom] Weyoun I already have there."

In summary if the text of a treaty makes two personnel compatible before the second one "hits the table" than FTP should as well.
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By patrick (Patrick Weijers)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#573254
Takket wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:11 pmI don't know the answer to the OP, but I will say that yes, the person you download has to be compatible with the facility as well, because if they aren't, they go into house arrest, and you cannot voluntarily put someone in house arrest.
Wouldn't that make the "compatible" on the card redundant? (as in, if they are not compatible with the other people there, there would also need to be someone going into house arrest. (You can't have split away teams in a facility, right?))
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#573262
Card says "on a facility" not your facility. You can play this on your VIPs in a Guest Quarters or shops on opponent's Nor. You can play this on your intruders in an opponent's Colony. You can play this on your personnel in an opponent's Headquarters. You only have to worry about compatibility for the HQ and your own facilities.
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By WeAreBack
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#573716
I have been under the working assumption that GTTT works just fine on FTP.

That was based on seeing this a deck posted by Charlie Plaine that is entirely based on the idea of using the two in combination, and then making the personnel compatible using Release this Pain https://www.trekcc.org/1e/decklists/ind ... ckID=17135
I notice in particular that he's using two mission specialists, one of whom is Klingon for GTTT to work.

I'm hoping from some clarification from BCSWowbagger (since it doesn't have to be in blue text to be taken seriously by players) on the view that
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:42 am ...but I am inclined to say "no."
Is the problem the incompatibility of the personnel present in this example, or both the personnel and the facility?

Basically, what I am wondering is whether something like Charlie's deck (above) would work in your opinion if the two [Cmd] personnel on the FTP were both non-aligned. That is, the relevant phrase is "Download a compatible personnel with Leadership x2 to them" -- this implies that the compatibility check is between the [Cmd] personnel who are present together and the Leadership x 2 personnel being downloaded. I don't see anything on GTTT itself that asks for a check of whether the facility itself is compatible with the Leadership x 2 personnel being downloaded.

So if I had Ah-Kel and Ro-kel, rather than Sons of Mogh at the Ferengi Trading Post then I could download pretty much anyone, not just a Ferengi or non-aligned personnel, correct?
Likewise, if Ah-Kel and Ro-kel are at Wardroom on Deep Space Nine I wouldn't be limited to downloading just Bajoran personnel, personnel part of an affiliation that has a treaty with the Bajorans or non-aligned personnel, correct?
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#573904
WeAreBack wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:44 am Basically, what I am wondering is whether something like Charlie's deck (above) would work in your opinion if the two [Cmd] personnel on the FTP were both non-aligned.

Yes. This would work fine, even under my (current, weak) interpretation of GTTT. The problem in my opinion is that the two [Cmd] personnel and the downloaded personnel all need to be compatible as soon as the download starts, and I don't think they are until the download completes.

Ah-Kel and Ro-Kel (or any two [NA] personnel) get around that nicely.

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