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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
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Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#578456
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:56 pm (I'm not sure this is how we universally use "between" throughout the game, so I won't say that it is. But I admit that if a cunning troublemaker like, I dunno, Hobie tried to play Gaps In Normal Space or Romulan Minefield immediately between Bajoran and Barzan Wormhole because "there are missions on either side of the doorways so technically this is 'between two missions'", I would playfully cuff him upside the head.)
Wait, so we can't play a second Gaps In Normal Space immediately adjacent to the first one, since if the first one was between 2 missions, clearly the second one must also be?

:shifty: Kidding! Just kidding! :shifty:
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
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#578477
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:38 pm To be clear, I also don't believe this. I like the idea, but I don't think it's the current rule, nor that it's functionally equivalent to the current rule. (Allen... might. Not sure.)
It's definitely how I explain it, and how I think it has to work.

Here's my logic - consider this fairly simple situation.

I have Flight of the Intruder in hand, you have Amanda Rogers. Can you nullify my Flight?

Scenario 1: If suspends play is "faster" than regular interrupts, then the answer must be no - Amanda is just a regular ol' interrupt, and thus isn't fast enough to stop a suspend play effect. Which seems very counter-intuitive, plus gets real hinky when you swap out Flight for Launch Portal and Escape Pod, because now whether you can nullify Pod depends on whether you used Launch Portal to get it.

If we say "it's faster but you can still respond to it", then we've just created a duplicate timing scheme that looks identical to the regular one. And at that point, what's the difference?

Thus, I argue that suspends play is just a "universal valid response" - it slots into the same timing windows as a real valid response, but it can respond to anything. Making it "faster" at best just duplicates a bunch of timing for no actual difference, and at worst creates a class of actions that are immune to response.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
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1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#578478
I disagree with you @AllenGould, but I thank you for the example, because it provides another avenue to bolster my case.

Amanda is a "just" action, any number of which can play, without "closing the window" for "between" actions. This is because they don't create new windows, they simply occupy the same space as the action they're responding to, as do "suspends play".

"Just" actions effectively suspend play themselves, but only upon certain triggers.
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#578479
JeBuS wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:01 pm I disagree with you @AllenGould, but I thank you for the example, because it provides another avenue to bolster my case.

Amanda is a "just" action, any number of which can play, without "closing the window" for "between" actions. This is because they don't create new windows, they simply occupy the same space as the action they're responding to, as do "suspends play".

"Just" actions effectively suspend play themselves, but only upon certain triggers.
I don't think that helps your case, though - because now we either have *three* identical timing systems (and probably more, because you could respond to that just with flipping a [HA] so now there's more)... or it's all the same basic system with differences in when they're legal plays. ;)

quick edit: as an example - upthread someone called doorways slower than interrupts, but I'd argue they're exactly the same - on your turn, any time you could play an interrupt you could play a doorway. The difference is only that on your opponent's turn doorways aren't legal plays. They're not slower, just more restricted. Thus also valid responses.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
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1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#578480
AllenGould wrote:I don't think that helps your case, though - because now we either have *three* identical timing systems (and probably more, because you could respond to that just with flipping a so now there's more)... or it's all the same basic system with differences in when they're legal plays.
Except, it's not creating new timing systems. That's what I'm saying. Every time something suspends play, it's simply taking place within an existing window of time. If you suspend play during another action, you're suspending play within the window that action exists. Sure, there are other actions that can result from that suspends play action, but they all exist within the original window, too.
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