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By WeAreBack
 - Beta Quadrant
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#578697
The wording on the Shades of Grey version of Mr. Tuvok seems designed to allow him to be taken into hand on an opponent's turn.

I know at some point the rules change to allow [DL] during the seed phase. I think this was after SoG was released but am not sure.

Can Mr. Tuvok's game text be triggered from inside my draw deck deck during a seed phase [DL]? (Most obviously, on I.S.S. Enterprise.)

Or would I need to wait until a player's turn actually starts to use his ability. This is no problem if my opponent ends up going first -- I have no other way to get a download before my first turn than a download that I would have otherwise done in the seed phase -- but if I go first, it interferes with another download I have planned for the first turn.

Additionally, my reading of the rules is that they say "Draw 7 cards" into your hand, not "Draw to fill your 7 card starting hand", so my understanding is that if I could trigger Mr. Tuvok's ability before the seed phase ends, he would appear in my hand during the seed phase, and then later I would draw 7 further cards.
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First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#578702
My understanding has always been that you don't have a hand until you hit this part of the rulebook:
Both players shuffle their draw decks and place them face-down on the table, then draw seven concealed cards to form a starting hand.
(emphasis mine)

And because we're in seed, not play, you don't have responses - you can't flip hidden agendas, etc and so forth. The only reason you can use [DL] is that there's a specific cut-out that says when it's your turn to seed a card, you can instead use a [DL] download.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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Regent
Community Contributor
#578703
AllenGould wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:20 am My understanding has always been that you don't have a hand until you hit this part of the rulebook:
Both players shuffle their draw decks and place them face-down on the table, then draw seven concealed cards to form a starting hand.
(emphasis mine)

And because we're in seed, not play, you don't have responses - you can't flip hidden agendas, etc and so forth. The only reason you can use [DL] is that there's a specific cut-out that says when it's your turn to seed a card, you can instead use a [DL] download.
This sounds correct to me as well.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
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Community Contributor
#578704
RB wrote:The only actions you may take during the seed phases are:

* seeding cards;

* carrying out game text that takes place immediately upon seeding a card (for example, rotating Rura Penthe upon seeding Operate Dilithium Gulag); and

* [DL] Special Downloads.

All other actions, including "at any time" actions, must wait until the play phase begins.
To be used in the seed phases, Mr. Tuvok (SoG) would have to say something like, "(even during a seed phase)".
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