[Armus]

Here's a fun question:

Let's say I'm playing , and I cloak my ship at, say, Covert Installation when I have Engage Cloak in play.

My crafty opponent then pulls Covert Installation into a Black Hole using the Blade of Tkon planet chucking trick.

Now I want to decloak my ship, but... where do I put it?

[BCSWowbagger]

On my phone but check the glossary.

[Armus]

On my phone but check the glossary.

Glossary says starting point for the movement is the Black Hole.

Cool. A ruling that actually makes sense!!

Follow-up question: What happens if the Black Hole is closed by Revolving Door or removed by Examine Singularity?

Can't be making this too easy now!!

EDIT: Glossary covers the Revolving Door Question... Black Hole is still a spaceline location even if closed. The ES question is the fun one...

[nobthehobbit]

My hunch, but this is just a hunch, is that with Examine Singularity, the cloaked ship would go to whatever location everything else at the Black Hole got sent to. (Which you do have to choose since there's a ship at the Black Hole to use Examine Singularity.)

[AllenGould]

Bit of a bummer that you get to relocate to the Black Hole. Way more fun if you have to make sure you bail before your hidey hole gets eaten.

[jadziadax8]

My hunch, but this is just a hunch, is that with Examine Singularity, the cloaked ship would go to whatever location everything else at the Black Hole got sent to. (Which you do have to choose since there's a ship at the Black Hole to use Examine Singularity.)

I don't know about that. Examine Singularity says relocate ships there. The Rulebook says:

Cards aboard a cloaked card are not considered to be "here", at the location, or opposing for requirements or abilities originating outside the cloaked card.

It seems like your cloaked ship just ends up floating in the aether.

[AllenGould]

My hunch, but this is just a hunch, is that with Examine Singularity, the cloaked ship would go to whatever location everything else at the Black Hole got sent to. (Which you do have to choose since there's a ship at the Black Hole to use Examine Singularity.)

I don't know about that. Examine Singularity says relocate ships there. The Rulebook says:

Cards aboard a cloaked card are not considered to be "here", at the location, or opposing for requirements or abilities originating outside the cloaked card.

It seems like your cloaked ship just ends up floating in the aether.

I think the logic was that since there's a Glossary ruling saying that if you cloaked at Acquire Donuts, and it gets eaten by a Black Hole when you decloak you come out at Black Hole. So if Black Hole gets wiped out by Examine, then why wouldn't that "destination" just transfer to whereever Examine told you to relocate the Black Hole cards to?

Not saying that's *right* (and I think your take is better than D's original ruling), but I see the path.

As written today, I think if Black Hole goes away you're just SNAFUed because there's no specific cut-out for what happens.

[Professor Scott]

If they loose the cloaked ship due to Black Hole eating the location, I say good. Serves ya right, ya dirty .

[BCSWowbagger]

Bit of a bummer that you get to relocate to the Black Hole. Way more fun if you have to make sure you bail before your hidey hole gets eaten.

The thing to remember with Engage Cloak is that it's trying to simulate a cloaked ship prowling all over the spaceline. You're not (in the game's logic) actually at the starting location; you moved away from there several turns ago! But you were under cloak, so nobody saw you. You have to "return" to that location only as a conceit so that you can start calculating your "current" position.

So when the planet you were originally at gets eaten by Black Hole, it doesn't matter within the story of Engage Cloak -- you weren't there anyway. You were somewhere else on the spaceline, prowlin'. I don't say this too often, but this D ruling makes sense to me.

[Armus]

Bit of a bummer that you get to relocate to the Black Hole. Way more fun if you have to make sure you bail before your hidey hole gets eaten.

The thing to remember with Engage Cloak is that it's trying to simulate a cloaked ship prowling all over the spaceline. You're not (in the game's logic) actually at the starting location; you moved away from there several turns ago! But you were under cloak, so nobody saw you. You have to "return" to that location only as a conceit so that you can start calculating your "current" position.

So when the planet you were originally at gets eaten by Black Hole, it doesn't matter within the story of Engage Cloak -- you weren't there anyway. You were somewhere else on the spaceline, prowlin'. I don't say this too often, but this D ruling makes sense to me.

So what's the Examine Singularity corollary?

[BCSWowbagger]

Seems like I shouldn't express an opinion, since it's a novel issue the R.C. may have to opine on. I have an opinion, and I like it, but I'd better talk to the R.C. first.

For now, the correct answer to this (I assume extremely rare?) situation is "Whatever your T.D. says" with a small side order of "if this were an episode of Star Trek, how do you and your gaming partner think the situation should resolve?"

[Armus]

Seems like I shouldn't express an opinion, since it's a novel issue the R.C. may have to opine on. I have an opinion, and I like it, but I'd better talk to the R.C. first.

For now, the correct answer to this (I assume extremely rare?) situation is "Whatever your T.D. says" with a small side order of "if this were an episode of Star Trek, how do you and your gaming partner think the situation should resolve?"

[AllenGould]

The thing to remember with Engage Cloak is that it's trying to simulate a cloaked ship prowling all over the spaceline. You're not (in the game's logic) actually at the starting location; you moved away from there several turns ago! But you were under cloak, so nobody saw you. You have to "return" to that location only as a conceit so that you can start calculating your "current" position.

So when the planet you were originally at gets eaten by Black Hole, it doesn't matter within the story of Engage Cloak -- you weren't there anyway. You were somewhere else on the spaceline, prowlin'. I don't say this too often, but this D ruling makes sense to me.

And I get the Trek sense-ness of the Decipher answer, but it's messy rules-wise, and Black Hole eating your mission ain't exactly a sudden and unexpected game event. Not sure it's worth having an exception (and then a second Examine exception on top of it) just because someone decided to hide in the abyss.

[Armus]

The thing to remember with Engage Cloak is that it's trying to simulate a cloaked ship prowling all over the spaceline. You're not (in the game's logic) actually at the starting location; you moved away from there several turns ago! But you were under cloak, so nobody saw you. You have to "return" to that location only as a conceit so that you can start calculating your "current" position.

So when the planet you were originally at gets eaten by Black Hole, it doesn't matter within the story of Engage Cloak -- you weren't there anyway. You were somewhere else on the spaceline, prowlin'. I don't say this too often, but this D ruling makes sense to me.

And I get the Trek sense-ness of the Decipher answer, but it's messy rules-wise, and Black Hole eating your mission ain't exactly a sudden and unexpected game event. Not sure it's worth having an exception (and then a second Examine exception on top of it) just because someone decided to hide in the abyss.

It's definitely sudden when you get Bladed into it.

I mean, sure if you see your opponent seed space and then self-seed a mission, it's not hard to figure out what's coming, but there's still a fair bit of gamesmanship involved.

Really, if you see a Black Hole on the line, it seems to me the most logical thing to do would be to Cloak at a space mission that isn't particularly close to the thing and go from there.

[Enabran]

Almost the same happened to me at my last game. I solved the Planetmission before it was destroyed. Then I cloaked the ship, because it had no range. I placed it on Engage Cloak.
On the next turn the Planet was destroyed by the power of the Guard of Tkon. And because I made both decks, I knew that the on the other side of the table was Examine singularity. If he would have used it to close the Black hole I would have simply returned my ship, if I then would have decided to decloak it, to one of the neighbouring missions of the black hole and started from there to move.