#582606
Fairly simple: if I do something "in place of" my normal card play to put a card into play, would that be treated "as" my normal card play for cards that look to that.

The examples that spring to mind are HQ: Shipyards and Supplant Opposite both of which let you draw a card when you do something "as" your normal card play.

If I use Call for Reinforcements to download a ❖ ship to my headquarters, do I get to draw a card?

If I use the text of Ops to download Kira Nerys from (Through the Looking Glass) to [Baj] Deep space Nine -- presumably a version of her who is [1E-DS9] and a copy of We Need You Here on the Commander's Office so I'm not barred from drawing a card by Ops' Game text -- can I draw a card?

Or do I need to be actually playing the card "as my normal card play" directly from my hand in order to get this benefit?
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#582611
WeAreBack wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:53 am Fairly simple: if I do something "in place of" my normal card play to put a card into play, would that be treated "as" my normal card play for cards that look to that.
Nope - you're doing it "in place of", as in "instead of".
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
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#582612
I'm of two minds on this one:

On the one hand, "In place of..." means you're doing the thing you're replacing instead of the thing you replaced, so that would argue that neither of these work.

On the other hand, downloading a card is considered playing a card, so downloading in place of your normal card play is still a card play, so that would argue that both of these tricks would work.

Which one controls? I don't know for sure, but if I had to rule on it in a tournament setting, I'd probably go with the former over the latter. "In place of..." is some fairly compelling language in that direction.

Take that for whatever it's worth...

:twocents:
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#582614
Armus wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:43 am On the other hand, downloading a card is considered playing a card, so downloading in place of your normal card play is still a card play, so that would argue that both of these tricks would work.
I would point to Red Alert as the reason why the replacement ability can't also qualify as a normal card play. (And if playing three personnel with RA means I've now played three normal card plays, can I convert *those* "normal card plays" recursively? ;) )
#582616
I had forgotten that Red Alert was ever changed since my PAQ days since the darn thing has so many easily available counters, with two different Captain's orders, Yellow Alert and Deactivation, a very useful seed card, Spacedoor, and a [Ref] card, It's only a Game, on top of being actually banned in OTF!

I suppose that card's existence is a good point.

It seems clear that the language of "as your normal card play" was really designed to prevent people from making a free report, then returning their hand size to what it was by instantly drawing a card. (Something that is very common when using HQ: Executive Orders, though this is at least limited to once per turn.)
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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#582676
geraldkw wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:43 am Can we change "in place of" to "replacing" if that's what it means?
Aren't these synonymous?

If memory serves, turning off HQ: Shipyards in (most) [Baj] decks was deliberate. It was super good in those decks.
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By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
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1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#582677
geraldkw wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:43 am Can we change "in place of" to "replacing" if that's what it means?

This is kind of sad because it makes HQ: Shipyards even worse than it already is. It already excludes Bajor if DS9 is there and if this is correct it means "report with crew" doesn't work either.
Pretty much. Basically, if the rule is that "report with crew" replaces your "normal card play", and your normal card play is considered expended, but isn't considered to have happened, then HQ: Shipyards won't trigger for that card draw.

I do wonder if that was the design intent for the card. Cuz it was supposed to supplement the "no-Nor alternative" to Staging Ground, right?

Hard for me to tell how HQ:S is supposed to work though, since so few decks have actually used it.
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By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
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#582682
JeBuS wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm I do wonder if that was the design intent for the card. Cuz it was supposed to supplement the "no-Nor alternative" to Staging Ground, right?
Ooo, I know this one: It was built for Dominion Command, full stop, although others have indeed found some uses for it.
#582683
BCSWowbagger wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:14 pm
geraldkw wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:43 am Can we change "in place of" to "replacing" if that's what it means?
Aren't these synonymous?

If memory serves, turning off HQ: Shipyards in (most) [Baj] decks was deliberate. It was super good in those decks.
English is a tricky language and I am wondering if both "in place of" and "replacing" mean that the new thing is now effectively the old thing.

Example: I replace my electric clothes dryer with a newer model. The old one and the new one are both "my dryer".

However if I replace my electric dryer with a clothesline, the clothesline replaces the functionality of the dryer but I doubt I would refer to it as "my (new) dryer" unless as a joke.

"instead of" might be better because it clearly implies that the new thing is different than the old thing.

Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure it helps but it would be nice if somehow the original question didn't need to be asked because the language was clear to everyone. I am not sure how to make that happen.
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By Orbin (James Monsebroten)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#582687
I just wanted to say that HQ: Shipyards is a pretty good card if you're playing a battle deck based out of your homeworld (one where you want to play a ship turn after turn). A really great deck for this card is a Guess Who's Coming To Dinner. There are a lot of [CF] [Kli] ships with matching commanders that don't have a big staffing requirements.

Suggested seed cards:
HQ: Shipyards
HQ: Executive Orders
The Undiscovered Country
Take Us Out
Guess Who's Coming To Dinner
The Great Hall

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