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By Exon
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E Risa Regional Champion 2023
#595876
The original Invasive Beam-In allowed invasive transporters to "beam through any SHIELDS." With the errata, they may beam "your personnel matching that ship through opponent's SHIELDS."

Am I reading the new text correctly that equipment can no longer be beamed using this card?

I.e., your Jem'Hadar must now go into battle un-armed, and you could no longer use this to retrieve The Emperor's New Cloak off an opponent's ship?
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#595879
When your personnel are moved (in any way) they may bring equipment with them.

Rules: Move
Whenever your personnel move, whether by choice or by force, they may carry any number of Equipment cards with them. Equipment is not carried by any specific personnel, but is carried (and used by) the entire team as a whole.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#595894
I'm sorry, I don't have time to check right now and should know this off the top of my head, but was there a time in the game's history when equipment could move (or be beamed) by itself, without being carried by personnel?
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#595895
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:43 pm I'm sorry, I don't have time to check right now and should know this off the top of my head, but was there a time in the game's history when equipment could move (or be beamed) by itself, without being carried by personnel?
I don't know if it was ever a rule, but in practice, I know I've done it and others I've played with, as well.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#595896
The beaming entry of the glossary suggests that equipment have always been able to (and still can) beam alone. You beam cards (personell, Equipment or tribbles) not just personell holding these things
Beaming uses transporters to transfer personnel, equipment, and tribbles over short distances. All ships and facilities have their own transporters unless the card indicates otherwise. To beam to or from a ship or facility, its SHIELDS must be conceptually dropped by a player, or a card or rule must specifically allow dropping or beaming through the SHIELDS. Transporters and SHIELDS may be operated by the player who controls a ship, or by any player who is allowed to use a facility. (You need not have a Personnel card aboard a ship or facility in order to use its transporters.) For example, you may normally beam cards to or from your opponent's headquarters, but not to or from your opponent's ship or outpost which is protected by SHIELDS. If SHIELDS=0 or are disabled or off line, you may beam freely.

You may beam cards between two ships and/or facilities that you control or are allowed to use, or between a ship or facility and a planet surface. The starting and ending point of the transport must be at the same location and a ship or facility must be compatible with any personnel beaming aboard, unless you are invading an opponent's ship or facility that you are not allowed to use. (Equipment cards have no affiliation.) You may only beam to/from your transporters (e.g. you may not use the transporters on a facility to beam directly from a planet to a ship that has no transporters). You may not use the transporters of one ship or facility to transport cards directly between a planet and another ship or facility without transporters. You may not beam any card into space unless a card specifically allows you to do so.

To beam cards, announce the beaming, remove the cards from the ship, facility, or planet, and move them to their destination, placing them under a ship or facility or on top of a planet. All cards in a group beam simultaneously unless you specify otherwise.

There is no limit to the number of times you can beam during your turn.

Special beaming cards such as Near-Warp Transport or Emergency Transporter Armbands, or dilemmas such as Extradition, do not overcome obstacles to beaming, such as Atmospheric Ionization, Katherine Pulaski's beaming restriction, Barclay Transporter Phobia, or being "stopped," and do not provide transporters or allow you to use your opponent's transporters.
Also the Ketricel white entry
Resetting: Primary Supply Depot and Remote Supply Depot both "reset" countdowns of Ketracel-White aboard. You must carry or beam unexpired cards from your ship to the outpost to reset the countdowns. While aboard the outpost, they count down normally at the end of your turn (if a [KW] personnel is present) but immediately reset.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#595897
Also even with the quoted text, there is nothing that says equipment must move with an AT. Only that it can
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#595899
I think Glossary: Beaming and Rules: Beaming should be on the list of "Things To Merge and Fix" if they aren't already. They look similar, but are not actually the same.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#596104
I figured Invasive Beam-In is providing an exception to something normally not allowed (beaming through SHIELDS), and because it's granting the exception to personnel only, equipment would have to take advantage of the move/carry rule to be beamed--meaning the equipment in this situation can't be beamed by itself. Or would that line of thinking break something.
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#596438
Data's Socks wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:44 pm I figured Invasive Beam-In is providing an exception to something normally not allowed (beaming through SHIELDS), and because it's granting the exception to personnel only, equipment would have to take advantage of the move/carry rule to be beamed--meaning the equipment in this situation can't be beamed by itself. Or would that line of thinking break something.
No, I think you are correct and I agree with you. My point is that was a change from the original wording that may or may not have been intended.


Original: You can beam anything you normally could as if there were no shields.

New: "may beam your personnel matching that ship"

to me, this means you can no longer beam just equipment (odd corner case).

It wasn't until this discussion that I even thought of not being able to bring equipment with them. (Which I think still works under the rules)
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