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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#597559
Does this card also override the one artifact per mission rule?

I.e. I seed an [Art] during the dilemma phase. Then during “everything else” phase I sees RSM and another [Art] under the same mission.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#597562
Takket wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:04 pm Does this card also override the one artifact per mission rule?

I.e. I seed an [Art] during the dilemma phase. Then during “everything else” phase I sees RSM and another [Art] under the same mission.
I'd say yes.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#597564
JeBuS wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:19 pm
Takket wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:04 pm Does this card also override the one artifact per mission rule?

I.e. I seed an [Art] during the dilemma phase. Then during “everything else” phase I sees RSM and another [Art] under the same mission.
I'd say yes.
There is no "one artifact per mission rule"; technically, you can seed as many artifacts at a mission as you want! :D

However, there is a "if a single player seeds more than one artifact at a mission, they are all mis-seeds, become unearnable, and prevent that player from solving the mission" rule.

I don't see anything on Recover Stolen Material that (it seems to me) overrides the mis-seeds rule.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#597565
JeBuS wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:19 pm
Takket wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:04 pm Does this card also override the one artifact per mission rule?

I.e. I seed an [Art] during the dilemma phase. Then during “everything else” phase I sees RSM and another [Art] under the same mission.
I'd say yes.
Really? Based on what?

I got a rulebook line saying otherwise:
If you seed more than one artifact at a single Mission, all your artifacts there are mis-seeds.

I know right before it there's this bit...
Some cards, like Cryosatellite, Orb Negotiations, and The Nexus, provide specific exceptions to these rules. All other cards seeded beneath missions are mis-seeds and will be removed from the game when revealed.
... but I don't see where Recover gives you permission to break the (de facto) one [Art] per mission rule.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
1E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#597568
The fun thing though, is that your Recover artifact isn't a mis-seed until the other artifact is revealed. So you can HQ: Return earn the first one while the other one remains seeded.

If you then reveal the other artifact, both will removed from the game and lock you out of the mission.

I don't know why you'd do that, but you can.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#597570
JeBuS wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:45 pm The fun thing though, is that your Recover artifact isn't a mis-seed until the other artifact is revealed. So you can HQ: Return earn the first one while the other one remains seeded.

If you then reveal the other artifact, both will removed from the game and lock you out of the mission.

I don't know why you'd do that, but you can.
Fair point, it's just like playing a non- [HA] and calling it one. You don't loose the game until it's revealed as a non- [HA], so if that doesn't happen you are safe.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#597574
Professor Scott wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:48 pm
JeBuS wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:45 pm The fun thing though, is that your Recover artifact isn't a mis-seed until the other artifact is revealed. So you can HQ: Return earn the first one while the other one remains seeded.

If you then reveal the other artifact, both will removed from the game and lock you out of the mission.

I don't know why you'd do that, but you can.
Fair point, it's just like playing a non- [HA] and calling it one. You don't loose the game until it's revealed as a non- [HA], so if that doesn't happen you are safe.
Technically... at the end of every game, both players are required to show their [HA] cards to avoid that sort of shenanigans (at least it was required at one point, no idea if it still is).

Same thing with showing Devidian Door(s).
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#597575
Armus wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:58 pm
Professor Scott wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:48 pm
JeBuS wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:45 pm The fun thing though, is that your Recover artifact isn't a mis-seed until the other artifact is revealed. So you can HQ: Return earn the first one while the other one remains seeded.

If you then reveal the other artifact, both will removed from the game and lock you out of the mission.

I don't know why you'd do that, but you can.
Fair point, it's just like playing a non- [HA] and calling it one. You don't loose the game until it's revealed as a non- [HA], so if that doesn't happen you are safe.
Technically... at the end of every game, both players are required to show their [HA] cards to avoid that sort of shenanigans (at least it was required at one point, no idea if it still is).

Same thing with showing Devidian Door(s).
You are not required to show misseeds since there is an in game mechanic for punishing them
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#597576
I was referring to the [HA] cards specifically, not the misseeds.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#597577
JeBuS wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:45 pm The fun thing though, is that your Recover artifact isn't a mis-seed until the other artifact is revealed. So you can HQ: Return earn the first one while the other one remains seeded.

If you then reveal the other artifact, both will removed from the game and lock you out of the mission.

I don't know why you'd do that, but you can.
This is a heck of an angle shot, but kudos; I do think this works.

As for [HA]:

Showing [HA] at the end of the game is still required "upon request": you only have to do it if opponent asks for it. But if you turn out to have [HA]-cheated, you immediately lose.

The rule is the same for "download and seed" cards: you must show them at the end of the game upon request, and immediately lose the game if you turn out to have illegally downloaded and seeded.

But of course pfti and Armus are right that mis-seeds aren't enforced like this, and are sometimes even encouraged as a bluff. Mis-seeds aren't illegal, just (usually) dumb!
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#597589
That was my point, you don't lose until they are revealed. I am not voluntarily gonna reveal them. Many players probably don't know to "request" but then odds are most players are not gonna risk it for very little possible gain by deliberately play non - [HA].
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