- Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#599556
I am dreambuilding for a potential play in The Mission to Talos IV Golden Age tournament and came with the following questions that my affect my build.

Thanks.


  1. What are the rules changes for Nors? I am assuming that Nor’s SHIELDS no longer block transporters, there is no longer a limit to walking and docking sites are no longer required.
  2. Continuing that thread, do Nors have built in transporters? If so, who can use them?
  3. Continuing from above, do these changes affect Cargo Bay and “cargo runs”. Specifically, does beaming in an equipment directly from a ship qualify for a “cargo run”?
  4. If a captive is “held in a brig,” can they be rescued by the opponent (without a special card) if they not attended by any of your other personnel?
  5. Can you battle the opponent’s personnel that you have captured?
  6. When an opponent’s personnel is captured and held by a trap card, can you relocate them to your crew or away team when the arrive later?
  7. Is an empty ship considered a crew for the purposes of relocating a just-captured personnel?
  8. How do “attack restriction overriders” work in the context of mulitple battles (e.g. Admiral Riker, HQ: Defensive Measures); specifically do you need an “overrider” for each ship?
  9. When a special download has multiple target locations, how does the “must target here” rule apply? For instance, when special downloading Near Warp Transport, does Miles O’Brien have to be at the beam-from location, at the beam-to location, or either? For Arandis at Risa, can she use her special download to target an alone male anywhere and move then to “the target” Risa?
  10. It appears that Devidian Door’s errata require it to be used during the report phase. Is this the case?
  11. Does using Devidian Door require an [1E-AU] enabler as it did before the errata?
  12. If its hypothesis is met, does I Tried To Warn You end the mission attempt?
  13. When happens if all of one side’s personnel “vanish” during a personnel battle? Does the battle immediately cease, or is the remaining side considering the “winner”? Does the answer change if there that one side still has “combatants” (e.g. Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone)?
  14. When a personnel is stunned in a pairing as the result of an ability, do you still compare STRENGTH? Put more directly, if Grand Nagus Gint is using the Scepter of the Grand Nagus, can he still be mortally wounded normally?
  15. Can you have multiple incompatible affiliations at a site? Specifically, if you want to have Quark at Quark’s Bar for Dabo, then all other personnel you move there must be compatible with Quark; is that correct?
  16. Does Dixon Hill’s Business Card, played as an interrupt, “enter play” for the purposes of Fajo’s Gallery?
  17. If you play Dixon Hill’s Business Card on your own personnel, do you “capture” that personnel for the purposes of Fajo’s Gallery?
  18. Can you use Ready Room Door to download Rinnak Pire aboard a ❖[Baj] ship?
  19. Can you use Ready Room Door to download a matching commander to a landed ship?
  20. How does Energy Vortex (played on the ship) interact with a report from crew via Space-Time Portal?
  21. When you download a card from a side-deck, can you download a face-up card? Regardless, when you reshuffle from downloading from a side deck, do you shuffle the face-up cards back to be face-down?
User avatar
 
By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#599565
bold = my responses
quote from glossary, rulebook, etc

  1. What are the rules changes for Nors? I am assuming that Nor’s SHIELDS no longer block transporters, there is no longer a limit to walking and docking sites are no longer required.


    - correct
  2. Continuing that thread, do Nors have built in transporters? If so, who can use them?

    - Yes they have them.

    > All ships and facilities have transporters unless otherwise specified. You may not operate your opponent's transporters unless you are allowed to use their facility

    I would say the controller, and if you are compatible.
  3. Continuing from above, do these changes affect Cargo Bay and “cargo runs”. Specifically, does beaming in an equipment directly from a ship qualify for a “cargo run”?

    - Yes, as long as a personnel beams over with it.
  4. If a captive is “held in a brig,” can they be rescued by the opponent (without a special card) if they not attended by any of your other personnel?

    - Only if you control the facility.

    > Some cards allow you to add a Brig to a ship or facility. While you control the ship or facility, you may move captured personnel into and out of the Brig during your turn (while in the Brig they are held but not escorted). If your opponent commandeers or assimilates the ship or facility, their personnel may subsequently release any of their other personnel held captive in the Brig (if present).
  5. Can you battle the opponent’s personnel that you have captured?

    No.

    You may not initiate battle against personnel you have captured, unless a card allows or requires it. See White Deprivation
  6. When an opponent’s personnel is captured and held by a trap card, can you relocate them to your crew or away team when the arrive later?

    Yes.

    Otherwise, the capturing card remains in play and serves as a temporary "trap" to hold the captives on your side of that location until your personnel can arrive to take them into custody. (If there is a planet at that location, the trap is on the planet.)
    Your ship with transporters (in space) or your Away Team (on a planet) can subsequently take custody of the captives if present with the trap, then discard the trap card.
  7. Is an empty ship considered a crew for the purposes of relocating a just-captured personnel?

    Ooh, good one. I don't believe so, but I don't have a firm quote.
  8. How do “attack restriction overriders” work in the context of mulitple battles (e.g. Admiral Riker, HQ: Defensive Measures); specifically do you need an “overrider” for each ship?

    1. Initiation: The attacking player announces an attack, chooses an attacking force (which can include any or all of that player's compatible cards at that location), and one opposing card to target. The targeted card forms the defending force.

    I would say no, as long as you have someone that that allows the attack, all the rest may join.
  9. When a special download has multiple target locations, how does the “must target here” rule apply? For instance, when special downloading Near Warp Transport, does Miles O’Brien have to be at the beam-from location, at the beam-to location, or either? For Arandis at Risa, can she use her special download to target an alone male anywhere and move then to “the target” Risa?
  10. It appears that Devidian Door’s errata require it to be used during the report phase. Is this the case?

    I think so, but unsure.
  11. Does using Devidian Door require an [1E-AU] enabler as it did before the errata?

    Devidian Door itself is [1E-AU], so you need the enable to play the door regardless. (Not to show it to avoid losing the game)
  12. If its hypothesis is met, does I Tried To Warn You end the mission attempt?

    Yes. - https://www.trekcc.org/1e/rulings.php?m ... ruling=220
  13. When happens if all of one side’s personnel “vanish” during a personnel battle? Does the battle immediately cease, or is the remaining side considering the “winner”? Does the answer change if there that one side still has “combatants” (e.g. Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone)?

    Repeat this stage (revealing and comparing personnel) of the battle until either combat pile is empty.

    I would say that if all of one side vanishes, then the remaining is the victor.
  14. When a personnel is stunned in a pairing as the result of an ability, do you still compare STRENGTH? Put more directly, if Grand Nagus Gint is using the Scepter of the Grand Nagus, can he still be mortally wounded normally?

    No, if Gint stuns the opposing personnel, that happens before the str total.
  15. Can you have multiple incompatible affiliations at a site? Specifically, if you want to have Quark at Quark’s Bar for Dabo, then all other personnel you move there must be compatible with Quark; is that correct?

    Correct, you can not purposely cause house arrest situations. Community Leader might be useful.
  16. Does Dixon Hill’s Business Card, played as an interrupt, “enter play” for the purposes of Fajo’s Gallery?

    Cannot find a conclusive rule, but I would say yes.
    has entered play (that is, it was played, was not nullified, and was not discarded as part of its results)
  17. If you play Dixon Hill’s Business Card on your own personnel, do you “capture” that personnel for the purposes of Fajo’s Gallery?

    No.
    Some cards and rules allow you to capture your opponent's personnel (never a personnel you control).
  18. Can you use Ready Room Door to download Rinnak Pire aboard a ❖[Baj] ship?

    Yes
  19. Can you use Ready Room Door to download a matching commander to a landed ship?

    Yes
  20. How does Energy Vortex (played on the ship) interact with a report from crew via Space-Time Portal?

    That's a good question. Pass. :P
  21. When you download a card from a side-deck, can you download a face-up card? Regardless, when you reshuffle from downloading from a side deck, do you shuffle the face-up cards back to be face-down?
Oooh. I would have said yes in the past, but the new wording of Q-Flash makes me say no. The face up cards are not in the Q-Flash, but instead stacked on top. This one I'm going to @BCSWowbagger for clarification.
[/quote]
User avatar
 
By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#599580
I'll add my :twocents: to the ones boromirofborg wasn't sure on......

7. The glossary says crew, so I'd say an empty ship does not qualify. That being said it also says your "ship with transporters" can take custody of them later, so if you already have an empty ship there, this should pretty much just happen on your next turn.

8. Admiral riker says "leaders here" and HQ:DM says "leaders" so that is telling you what you need in each ship or Away Team you want to initiate battle with.

9. Rulebook:
If the target card is location-based, it must be downloaded to the location of the [DL] icon. For example, Arandis may download Jamaharon to nullify a Horga'hn, because that effect is not location-specific. Arandis may also download Jamaharon to relocate a male at her location to Risa. But she may not download Jamaharon to relocate a male at another location to Risa.
"Location based" isn't defined, but NWT has to play at a location, because that is where ships are. So I'd say it must go to a ship at his location. Your Arandis question is directly answered in the rulebook.

10. Using this card's "Once each turn" effect is an order and will advance you to the execute orders phase of your turn, if you aren't there already.

20. I wrote a lengthy answer to this and now I think it is wrong because the glossary entry for this card has a caveat that seems wrong...... so I'm going to summon the rules master for this one......

21. You cannot download from face up cards and you don't shuffle them in after downloading from face down cards. Those face up cards are discarded cards. They are not in the side deck and as such are not valid targets for downloading. Face up cards are only shuffled back into the side deck once it is "empty" per Q-Flash's instruction which is implicitly telling you that the face up cards are not in the side deck (otherwise it would never be "empty"). Though a tiny clarifying entry in the glossary might be nice on this one.
 
 - Alpha Quadrant
 -  
#600541
boromirofborg wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 1:05 pm [*]Can you battle the opponent’s personnel that you have captured?

No.

You may not initiate battle against personnel you have captured, unless a card allows or requires it. See White Deprivation
Thank you.

@BCSWowbagger, this is not mentioned in the rulebook, it is only mentioned in the glossary.
[*]When an opponent’s personnel is captured and held by a trap card, can you relocate them to your crew or away team when the arrive later?

Yes.

Otherwise, the capturing card remains in play and serves as a temporary "trap" to hold the captives on your side of that location until your personnel can arrive to take them into custody. (If there is a planet at that location, the trap is on the planet.)
Your ship with transporters (in space) or your Away Team (on a planet) can subsequently take custody of the captives if present with the trap, then discard the trap card.
However, it is unclear what "if present" means as the ship cannot be present with the trap card.

[*]How do “attack restriction overriders” work in the context of mulitple battles (e.g. Admiral Riker, HQ: Defensive Measures); specifically do you need an “overrider” for each ship?

1. Initiation: The attacking player announces an attack, chooses an attacking force (which can include any or all of that player's compatible cards at that location), and one opposing card to target. The targeted card forms the defending force.

I would say no, as long as you have someone that that allows the attack, all the rest may join.
My question meant to ask about a battle with multiple ships. It still remains unclear.
[*]It appears that Devidian Door’s errata require it to be used during the report phase. Is this the case?

I think so, but unsure.
@BCSWowbagger , there is a conflict in answers here.
[*]Does using Devidian Door require an [1E-AU] enabler as it did before the errata?

Devidian Door itself is [1E-AU], so you need the enable to play the door regardless. (Not to show it to avoid losing the game)
Pre-errata, saying Devidan Door was an [1E-AU] action. E.g., you could not say "Devidan Door" with Space-Time Portal if you already played an [1E-AU] card that turn. It is not completely clear if that is no longer the case.
[*]If its hypothesis is met, does I Tried To Warn You end the mission attempt?

Yes. - https://www.trekcc.org/1e/rulings.php?m ... ruling=220
@BCSWowbagger, this is contrary to the retemplating on Radioactive Garbage Scow.
[*]When happens if all of one side’s personnel “vanish” during a personnel battle? Does the battle immediately cease, or is the remaining side considering the “winner”? Does the answer change if there that one side still has “combatants” (e.g. Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone)?

Repeat this stage (revealing and comparing personnel) of the battle until either combat pile is empty.

I would say that if all of one side vanishes, then the remaining is the victor.
Even if the "vanishing" side has STRENGTH remaining (e.g., Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone)? What if the winning side vanishes after it wins the battle but before an additional personnel is selected to die?
[*]When a personnel is stunned in a pairing as the result of an ability, do you still compare STRENGTH? Put more directly, if Grand Nagus Gint is using the Scepter of the Grand Nagus, can he still be mortally wounded normally?

No, if Gint stuns the opposing personnel, that happens before the str total.
This is reasonable. @BCSWowbagger this is not clear in the rules.

[*]Can you use Ready Room Door to download a matching commander to a landed ship?

Yes
However, "A landed ship may not be targeted by any card that targets a ship." Why does this not apply to Ready Room Door?
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#600543
Thank you for these notes. I will put them on the docket for Rules to discuss this month.
User avatar
 
By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#600722
devidian door
It looks like an order to me, with the "Once each turn" wording.
This doesn't compare to the free plays on Headquarters, because those aren't opening up reports, they are making some reports free.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#601627
FranklinKenter wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:28 pm
boromirofborg wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 1:05 pm [*]Can you battle the opponent’s personnel that you have captured?

No.

You may not initiate battle against personnel you have captured, unless a card allows or requires it. See White Deprivation
Thank you.

@BCSWowbagger, this is not mentioned in the rulebook, it is only mentioned in the glossary.
We are going to add this to the Rulebook, as suggested, most likely at the August 14th change window.
[*]When an opponent’s personnel is captured and held by a trap card, can you relocate them to your crew or away team when the arrive later?

Yes.

Otherwise, the capturing card remains in play and serves as a temporary "trap" to hold the captives on your side of that location until your personnel can arrive to take them into custody. (If there is a planet at that location, the trap is on the planet.)
Your ship with transporters (in space) or your Away Team (on a planet) can subsequently take custody of the captives if present with the trap, then discard the trap card.
However, it is unclear what "if present" means as the ship cannot be present with the trap card.
I am personally confused by this one. (It seems to me that the ship is present with the trap card, so there's no question.) However, the rest of the Rules Committee does not seem confused about it, and they are trying to straighten me out. They think we can improve the wording here, and I'm sure they are correct, so look for that at some point.
[*]How do “attack restriction overriders” work in the context of mulitple battles (e.g. Admiral Riker, HQ: Defensive Measures); specifically do you need an “overrider” for each ship?

1. Initiation: The attacking player announces an attack, chooses an attacking force (which can include any or all of that player's compatible cards at that location), and one opposing card to target. The targeted card forms the defending force.

I would say no, as long as you have someone that that allows the attack, all the rest may join.
My question meant to ask about a battle with multiple ships. It still remains unclear.
We agree that it is unclear, and we plan to address it at the next opportunity.

The short answer is that it depends on the authorizing card. Each ship in a ship battle must have permission to attack, and some cards can grant blanket permission to a bunch of ships at a location (e.g. Omet'iklan), but others (e.g. Captain Kirk (TwT)) grant permission only to their own ship.

However, I repeat, we concur that the rules are not currently clear about this, and plan to amend them accordingly.
[*]It appears that Devidian Door’s errata require it to be used during the report phase. Is this the case?

I think so, but unsure.
@BCSWowbagger , there is a conflict in answers here.
Activating Devidian Door is a once-each-turn action that is not a card play (or free play). That makes it an order.

It is not an at-any-time action, nor does it suspend play, so it can't "escape" the execute orders segment into the play segment.

Like Defend Homeworld and Quark's Isolinear Rods, Devidian Door (post-errata) is an order and cannot be used in any other turn segment.
[*]Does using Devidian Door require an [1E-AU] enabler as it did before the errata?

Devidian Door itself is [1E-AU], so you need the enable to play the door regardless. (Not to show it to avoid losing the game)
Pre-errata, saying Devidan Door was an [1E-AU] action. E.g., you could not say "Devidan Door" with Space-Time Portal if you already played an [1E-AU] card that turn. It is not completely clear if that is no longer the case.


It is no longer the case. I'm surprised that wasn't clear -- if not from the gametext, then at least from DD's updated Glossary entry. What would make it clear?
[*]If its hypothesis is met, does I Tried To Warn You end the mission attempt?

Yes. - https://www.trekcc.org/1e/rulings.php?m ... ruling=220
@BCSWowbagger, this is contrary to the retemplating on Radioactive Garbage Scow.
The DRG is incorrect. (As an unofficial play aid, this can happen from time to time, although our champ Jarrod does a terrific job maintaining it.)

The current rule (which the DRG does not reflect) is that mission attemptability is checked at start of attempt and at solve time. Under this rule, the gametext on I Tried To Warn You means ITTWY is immediately placed on the mission. Mission continues. If the current mission attempt clears all remaining seed cards and reaches the solve step, the attempt ends at that point (because attemptability is checked at solve time and the mission is no longer attemptable). Once mission attempt ends, a new mission attempt cannot be started.

As a practical matter, this means you will continue facing [Q] cards and possibly more dilemmas after getting hit with ITTWY, but without any hope of actually solving the mission.

We will amend the DRG accordingly.
[*]When happens if all of one side’s personnel “vanish” during a personnel battle? Does the battle immediately cease, or is the remaining side considering the “winner”? Does the answer change if there that one side still has “combatants” (e.g. Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone)?

Repeat this stage (revealing and comparing personnel) of the battle until either combat pile is empty.

I would say that if all of one side vanishes, then the remaining is the victor.
Even if the "vanishing" side has STRENGTH remaining (e.g., Echo Papa 607 Killer Drone)? What if the winning side vanishes after it wins the battle but before an additional personnel is selected to die?
If every member of a force leaves a battle at any step during a personnel battle, continue to resolve the battle according to the battle rules; you are simply dealing with an empty force. Step 4: Combat immediately ends, because one combat pile is empty. In Step 5: Determine Winner, add STRENGTH up as normal, although the vanished force will presumably have 0 STRENGTH (unless something like an Echo Papa remained behind). Selecting a casualty is impossible, assuming there is still no member of the losing force. In Step 6: Resolution, all cards stunned cards (even those not present) become unstunned, all mortally wounded cards (even those not present) die, all members of both forces present are stopped (per Step 6) and all "vanished" members are also stopped, even if not present (directly per 7.4.4 After the Battle, and analogously per 7.4.1.0.2 Cancelled Battles).
[*]When a personnel is stunned in a pairing as the result of an ability, do you still compare STRENGTH? Put more directly, if Grand Nagus Gint is using the Scepter of the Grand Nagus, can he still be mortally wounded normally?

No, if Gint stuns the opposing personnel, that happens before the str total.
This is reasonable. @BCSWowbagger this is not clear in the rules.
We concur. We will make it clear(er) in the rules.
[*]Can you use Ready Room Door to download a matching commander to a landed ship?

Yes
However, "A landed ship may not be targeted by any card that targets a ship." Why does this not apply to Ready Room Door?
[/quote]

The answer given earlier was incorrect. You cannot use Ready Room Door to download a matching commander to a landed ship, because Ready Room Door's matching-commander download targets a ship, landed ships cannot be targeted without specific permission, and nothing on Ready Room Door gives you specific permission to target a landed ship.

***

I do have a humble request from several rules team members. It is easier for us to process these questions when they come individually (ideally over a period of time), rather than in batches. You're clever and attentive, so they're usually difficult questions, so they usually each require sustained attention. As a result, it's challenging for us to handle the threading when they are batched up in what one Rules Committee member called "evil trivia night format."

Of course, we will aim to continue resolving difficult questions (and improving the rules docs) no matter what format you choose to present your concerns in. This is only a request, not a demand.

(And, I admit, with the actions thread, you weren't really asking 21 questions. You were asking the same question 21 times, and that question was "How does the action rule work, really?" It was still extremely difficult to handle the threading there, but I'm not sure it would have been better to break it out into separate topics. This one, though, didn't have that single theme tying it together, so it was just confusing, at least for some of us.)
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