[Armus]

Player A has 10 bonus points at time.

Player B has -10 bonus points at time.

No missions solved by either Player.

What's the result?

A.) Mod Win for Player A with +1 Differential

B.) Mod Win for Player A with +10 Differential

C.) Mod Win for Player A with +20 Differential

D.) True Tie for both players

I couldn't find an obvious answer in the OPG, the rulebook, or the glossary, so I'm asking here.

And if I missed it, please cite chapter and verse to me so I have it for future reference.

Thanks!

[pfti]

I assume you mean in OTF?

[Armus]

I assume you mean in OTF?

Yes. OTF/Modern.

[pfti]

The game continues until one player wins the game by having at least 100 points. However:

Each player who has not completed at least two missions, including one Planet and one Space mission, must score an additional 40 points to win.
Each player who has not completed at least one Alpha Quadrant mission must score an additional 40 points to win — unless neither player seeded any Alpha Quadrant missions, in which case this penalty is not applied.
If, at any time, any player has more bonus points than non-bonus points, the excess bonus points do not count toward winning.
If, at any time, both players' draw decks are empty, or if both players simultaneously achieve the victory conditions, the player with the most points is the winner.

Based on that part of the rules, the end score would be 0 to -10 when calculating whining (since -10 is less than 0, those bonus points still count towards winning)

Then via the OPG

Points in excess of 100 or below 0, do not count towards Differential. For example: a player ending a game
in Second Edition on 120 points is recorded as having 100 points. A player ending a game in First Edition on -5
points is recorded as having 0 points. The primary exception is when a specific rule set changes the baseline
point threshold needed to win the game. Differential is then capped at that number instead. For Example: In a
Second Edition Slipstream tournament, where you only need 50 points to win, points in excess of 50 do not
count towards Differential.

Those -10 points dont count for differential (but do count towards winning), so I would report it MW +1

I dont answer 10 because the mod rules only suspend the type of mission completed rules

In First Edition, a Modified Win is
awarded to the player with the highest total score regardless of the type of mission(s) completed.

, not the count towards winning rules (those rules are in the points entry of the glossary.

points "do not count toward winning," those points are not counted for determining a winner and loser. The points are not lost or cancelled, and still count for other purposes, such as passing Dead End.

[Armus]

The game continues until one player wins the game by having at least 100 points. However:

Each player who has not completed at least two missions, including one Planet and one Space mission, must score an additional 40 points to win.
Each player who has not completed at least one Alpha Quadrant mission must score an additional 40 points to win — unless neither player seeded any Alpha Quadrant missions, in which case this penalty is not applied.
If, at any time, any player has more bonus points than non-bonus points, the excess bonus points do not count toward winning.
If, at any time, both players' draw decks are empty, or if both players simultaneously achieve the victory conditions, the player with the most points is the winner.

Based on that part of the rules, the end score would be 0 to -10 when calculating whining (since -10 is less than 0, those bonus points still count towards winning)

Then via the OPG

Points in excess of 100 or below 0, do not count towards Differential. For example: a player ending a game
in Second Edition on 120 points is recorded as having 100 points. A player ending a game in First Edition on -5
points is recorded as having 0 points. The primary exception is when a specific rule set changes the baseline
point threshold needed to win the game. Differential is then capped at that number instead. For Example: In a
Second Edition Slipstream tournament, where you only need 50 points to win, points in excess of 50 do not
count towards Differential.

Those -10 points dont count for differential (but do count towards winning), so I would report it MW +1

I dont answer 10 because the mod rules only suspend the type of mission completed rules

In First Edition, a Modified Win is
awarded to the player with the highest total score regardless of the type of mission(s) completed.

, not the count towards winning rules (those rules are in the points entry of the glossary.

points "do not count toward winning," those points are not counted for determining a winner and loser. The points are not lost or cancelled, and still count for other purposes, such as passing Dead End.

Ok. This basically confirms my initial read, and the pieces I put together. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Thanks!

[JeBuS]

It is a True Tie according to the news article about the changes.
https://www.trekcc.org/articles/?articleID=3460

Alternatively, suppose Alice scores 1 bonus point during the game, but Bob scores 10 bonus points. None of these points count toward winning, so their "victory conditions score" is 0 to 0. The result is a True Tie. A True Tie always has a differential of +0 for both players, regardless of score.

[patrick]

It is a True Tie according to the news article about the changes.
https://www.trekcc.org/articles/?articleID=3460

Alternatively, suppose Alice scores 1 bonus point during the game, but Bob scores 10 bonus points. None of these points count toward winning, so their "victory conditions score" is 0 to 0. The result is a True Tie. A True Tie always has a differential of +0 for both players, regardless of score.

I'm don't think that example applies here.

Rulebook - 9: Winning the game

If, at any time, any player has more bonus points than non-bonus points, the excess bonus points do not count toward winning.

"Alice" did not have excess bonus points, so the -10 does count toward winning (or losing, here).

[JeBuS]

"excess" is any bonus points scored in excess of mission points, not just in excess of 100. So, both the +10 bonus and the -10 bonus are in excess of the 0 mission points both players scored.

I was the first, and am possibly the most frequent (ab)user of this rule.

[patrick]

"excess" is any bonus points scored in excess of mission points, not just in excess of 100. So, both the +10 bonus and the -10 bonus are in excess of the 0 mission points both players scored.

I was the first, and am possibly the most frequent (ab)user of this rule.

How is -10 more than 0 ?

[JeBuS]

-10 is excess because the lowest possible score for determining winning or losing is 0.

[pfti]

-10 is excess because the lowest possible score for determining winning or losing is 0.

Where do the rules say this? (they dont)
There is no lowest score for determining winning, only for determining differential (these are not the same)

The definition of "in-excess" is "more than." -10 is not more than 0

[JeBuS]

Points that count towards winning is the most important thing in determining the result (FW, MW, TT, ML, FL).

Alice had 0 mission points and 10 bonus points. Therefore, she has 0 points that count towards winning.
Bob had 0 mission points and -10 bonus points. Therefore, he has 0 points that count towards winning.

So, as the paragraph I cited above says, when both players have 0 points that count toward winning, it is a True Tie. And a True Tie is always scored with a 0 differential, regardless of score.

[JeBuS]

The relevant portions of the Organized Play Guide 7.4.1:

In First Edition, some points may not "count toward winning." These points are ignored when determining the match result (see section 7.5.1), but should be included in the Differential.

So, this gets you to 0 - 0 for the result (a True Tie). Then:

In the case of a True Tie or a normal Bye, affected players receive a Differential of 0 (regardless of score).

[pfti]

Except this is the only appliciable rule regardin which points do not count towards winning in this conversation

If, at any time, any player has more bonus points than non-bonus points, the excess bonus points do not count toward winning.

-10 is not more than 0. Therefore it still counts towards the player's score (for winning)
so in the case
The score is 10 to -10
The score (towards winning) is 0 -10
Player A has more points (towards winning), which in a mod win is all that matters
Therefore player a wins

Your cited paragraph does not apply since it does not explain what to do with negative numbers.

So unless you have rules text that negates my multiple cited examples of rules text, my argument has to stand

[pfti]

"excess" is any bonus points scored in excess of mission points, not just in excess of 100. So, both the +10 bonus and the -10 bonus are in excess of the 0 mission points both players scored.

I was the first, and am possibly the most frequent (ab)user of this rule.

If this definition of excess was true (if -10 was an excess bonus point). then all bonus points would not count towards winning (you seem to be defining excess as "outside of." While this can be a technically correct definition in the English language, such usage would break the bonus point mechanic entirely in OTF.

Excess has to mean "more than:" for the game to work. If -10 bonus points is in excess of 0 mission points then bonus points do not count towards winning: full stop.