[Dukat]

Hi guys,

question about the special download on J-25 Cube.

Can the special download do anything about the ship being destroyed by a direct hit?

[Ashigaru]

I'm pretty sure you can - it would be akin to O'Brien downloading Defense System Upgrade when the facility is about to go KABLAMMO! Suspend Play is a very powerful thing. They put the HULL damage to exceed 100% and you say "YOU FOOL! You activated my Special Download!"

[Professor Scott]

I'm pretty sure you can - it would be akin to O'Brien downloading Defense System Upgrade when the facility is about to go KABLAMMO! Suspend Play is a very powerful thing. They put the HULL damage to exceed 100% and you say "YOU FOOL! You activated my Special Download!"

Once you hit 100% it is too late, your ship is destroyed and you use your Federation Flagship: Recovered supported by Quark's Isolinear Rods trick. Direct hits are usually , and each of these are resolved and placed on the ship 1 at a time. After the 3rd one has been placed, and even after the 4th has been resolved, you may suspend play to Regenerate to remove the existing damage counters, so only that 4th tactic stays on the the ship. Naturally, if opponent is using 35% or higher, you may need to pull that trigger earlier, in which case you may end up with 2 tactics on the ship.

Pro Tip: The Needs of the Many ...

[Winner of Borg]

Once you hit 100% it is too late, your ship is destroyed and you use your Federation Flagship: Recovered supported by Quark's Isolinear Rods trick. [...]

i used to think that, too, but i've come to believe that this is the wrong interpretation.
if you use the after the damage gets placed, but before checking the hull % (in battle that would be between steps 6 / Damage and 8 / Resolution), Regenerate should be able to repair >= 100% hull damage and still keep the ship around.

[Kaiser]

Once you hit 100% it is too late, your ship is destroyed and you use your Federation Flagship: Recovered supported by Quark's Isolinear Rods trick. [...]

i used to think that, too, but i've come to believe that this is the wrong interpretation.
if you use the after the damage gets placed, but before checking the hull % (in battle that would be between steps 6 / Damage and 8 / Resolution), Regenerate should be able to repair >= 100% hull damage and still keep the ship around.

This is the conclusion that I've come to when I looked at it, and I think I argued that point at an event (whether online or in-person I don't remember) with the same timing details you give, but was told "that's not how it works", which I accepted at the time because I hadn't looked at TNG Borg a lot at that time.

[Professor Scott]

Once you hit 100% it is too late, your ship is destroyed and you use your Federation Flagship: Recovered supported by Quark's Isolinear Rods trick. [...]

i used to think that, too, but i've come to believe that this is the wrong interpretation.
if you use the after the damage gets placed, but before checking the hull % (in battle that would be between steps 6 / Damage and 8 / Resolution), Regenerate should be able to repair >= 100% hull damage and still keep the ship around.

This is the conclusion that I've come to when I looked at it, and I think I argued that point at an event (whether online or in-person I don't remember) with the same timing details you give, but was told "that's not how it works", which I accepted at the time because I hadn't looked at TNG Borg a lot at that time.

I recant, you are both correct. The tactic that will exceed 100% hull damage is placed in step 6. Damage: during which the hull damage is clearly calulated, and you have the entirety of Step 7. Determine Winner: to Regen before Step 8. Resolution: Discard your current tactic (if any). All ships or facilities with 100% or greater HULL damage are destroyed. (Players may now play cards that respond to the destruction of a card, such as Escape Pod.)

It is my belief that Regen is not a valid response to the destruction unlike FF:R or TNOTM, which are, because the Regen must interrupt play and there is no play that is being interrupted, so you must Regen between 6 and 8 as indicated above. This will remove all damage markers leaving 0% hull damage.

[FranklinKenter]

...
It is my belief that Regen is not a valid response to the destruction unlike FF:R or TNOTM, which are, because the Regen must interrupt play and there is no play that is being interrupted, so you must Regen between 6 and 8 as indicated above. This will remove all damage markers leaving 0% hull damage.

It still needs definitive clarification. In general, removing the trigger or condition of the event does not remove the pending event. See, for instance, the interaction between a Countermanda and a nullified Palor Toff; nullifying Palor Toff does not preclude a Countermanda from taking effect.

Step 6 for default damage says "On a direct hit, apply two Rotation Damage Markers, reducing the HULL by 100%. (The ship will be destroyed at the end of the battle.)" insinuating that reaching 100% HULL damage still will result in destruction regardless of whether or not the damage is subsequently removed; however, that destruction is suspended until step 8.

Even many other references say that applying 100% HULL damage causes the ship to immediately be destroyed:

• "When a ship's or facility's HULL integrity is reduced to 0%, it is destroyed." (damage)
• "If you scored a direct hit in battle, HULL integrity is reduced by 100% and the target is thus immediately destroyed. " (damage - rotation damage)
• "When a ship or facility's HULL is reduced to 0%, it is destroyed." (rulebook, Damage- Tactics Damage))
• "If a ship with rotation damage suffers any more rotation damage, HULL integrity will fall to 0% and the ship will be destroyed. (rulebook-,Damage-Rotation Damage)

Again, the insinuation here is that reaching 100% HULL damage causes the destruction of the ship and that destruction is simply suspended until all the pending tactics are placed and the winner of the battle is determined.

In short, this is not as clear cut as it seems and needs definitive clarification.

[JeBuS]

Franklin beat me to it. My understanding was that "destroyed" is triggered, whether or not you have removed the damage markers.

[Professor Scott]

I agree with both of you that it should be 100% hull damage/0% Hull and ship is destroyed...period. That is why I advocated that you need to Regen before the tactic is placed on the ship. The rules just seem to be a little ambiguous.

@BCSWowbagger, please advise.

[Takket]

If a card says to "destroy" a ship like "God" do you keep applying tactics until hull reaches 100%, or do you just put the ship in the discard pile?

Why it matters: If you don't actually apply tactics (or a rotation marker), is the ship ever really even damaged? and if not is the of Regenerate even applicable?

[Dukat]

Why it matters: If you don't actually apply tactics (or a rotation marker), is the ship ever really even damaged? and if not is the of Regenerate even applicable?

That is perhaps the core question, and the reason for my post.

I cannot answer that and the very different answers here show that it seems not so easy to actually find an answer.

[Winner of Borg]

If a card says to "destroy" a ship like "God" do you keep applying tactics until hull reaches 100%, or do you just put the ship in the discard pile?

Why it matters: If you don't actually apply tactics (or a rotation marker), is the ship ever really even damaged? and if not is the of Regenerate even applicable?

no, that case is pretty clear. if a card outright says to "destroy" a ship then Regenerate cannot help because there is no damage to repair. in that case, only cards that nullify the destruction itself (or the source of the destruction) can help you. (e.g. The Needs of the Many ...)

[Dukat]

Not talking about cards saying 'destroy'.


I still do not know if the ship's special download can be used when a direct hit using regular damage markers is landed.

[Professor Scott]

Not talking about cards saying 'destroy'.


I still do not know if the ship's special download can be used when a direct hit using regular damage markers is landed.

You absolutely can. Each damage marker is placed one at a time, whether it's or . The question is, must you Regenerate prior to the tactic that brings you to 100% is placed on the ship or can you Regen after it is placed, but not yet destroyed. This doesn't matter matter whether the tactics are from battle or from dilemmas. Only battle damage step 7 pause in the action. Dilemma damage doesn't have this as it's flip and resolve in one step.