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By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Delta Quadrant
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1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2024
#628636
Let's say this crew is affected by 1,000 Tribbles - Discard, Engineering Tricorder, and Engineering Kit:
Geordi La Forge
Juliana Tainer
Boothby
E.M.H. Program

What skills do they have when facing the next [1E-S] dilemma?

How many skills do they have?

How many Mission Specialists are in the crew?
Last edited by JeBuS on Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
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#628640
Not sure what is unclear; each personel loses their first-listed skills regardless of whether it is special or regular. (Glossary, skills, first-listed skill)

Geordi loses his first-listed skill. Since he's not at a planet he has no skills. He still has OFFICER classification and therefore gains ENGINEER from the kit.
Tainer has SCIENCE classification and her second special skill. (Glossary entry for Tainer says both of her skills are special skills.)
Boothby has CIVILIAN classification and Biology skill.
EMH has no skills, but MEDICAL classification (and therefore ENGINEER skill from the tricorder)

There are no mission specialists. Glossary entry for AMS says you can't create a mission specialist by removing skills from a multi-skilled personnel, so Geordi, Tainer, and Boothby don't qualify. EMH originally had two skills (a special skill + ENGINEER), so you can't remove the first-listed skill and turn him into a mission specialist either.
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By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Delta Quadrant
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1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2024
#628641
Rachmaninoff wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:51 pm Not sure what is unclear; each personel loses their first-listed skills regardless of whether it is special or regular. (Glossary, skills, first-listed skill)

Geordi loses his first-listed skill. Since he's not at a planet he has no skills. He still has OFFICER classification and therefore gains ENGINEER from the kit.
Tainer has SCIENCE classification and her second special skill. (Glossary entry for Tainer says both of her skills are special skills.)
Boothby has CIVILIAN classification and Biology skill.
EMH has no skills, but MEDICAL classification (and therefore ENGINEER skill from the tricorder)

There are no mission specialists. Glossary entry for AMS says you can't create a mission specialist by removing skills from a multi-skilled personnel, so Geordi, Tainer, and Boothby don't qualify. EMH originally had two skills (a special skill + ENGINEER), so you can't remove the first-listed skill and turn him into a mission specialist either.
Seems to check out.

How many skills do they each have?
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#628643
JeBuS wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:27 pm Let's say this crew is affected by 1,000 Tribbles - Discard, Engineering Tricorder, and Engineering Kit:
Geordi La Forge
Juliana Tainer
Boothby
E.M.H. Program

What skills do they have when facing the next [1E-S] dilemma?

How many skills do they have?

Let's walk this through:
1000Tribs removes first-listed skill
Eng. Tri gives MEDICAL-classification ENGINEER
Eng. Kit gives OFFICER-classification ENGINEER
The equipment doesn't interact with Tribbles, since new skills go to the end (so Tribs won't remove it), and they trigger on classifications (which Tribs can't remove)

So, going by the order the links added:
Geordi gets hosed because his first skill is "At [S] blah blah", so he loses that entire line. The second line is fine (but useless at [S] ), and he picks up ENGINEER from the Kit. He has two skills.

Juliana also gets hosed by losing her whole first line. So she has one skill (the "after first use as android" one).

Boothby loses his whole Youth thang, and ends up with Biology.

EMH loses the download skill, but picks up ENGINEER from the Tricorder.
How many Mission Specialists are in the crew?
None - "You cannot create a mission specialist by removing skills from a multi-skilled personnel (e.g., with Tsiolkovsky Infection). "
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#628648
JeBuS wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 10:00 pm All helpful answers.

Let's switch it up a bit.

Benjamin Maxwell has an Engineering Kit. So he's no longer a Specialist, right?

If I beam away the kit, does he become a Specialist again, after having ENGINEER removed?
Let us open our Glossaries to "Assign Mission Specialists" (because mission specialist redirects there)
"If a personnel loses mission specialist status due to a card such as a Medical Kit or Mot's Advice, that personnel regains it if separated from the kit or if the card is nullified."
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#628649
10 bucks says @JeBuS 's next question is what happens re: Mission Specialists when you beam away those 1000 Tribbles.
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#628651
abargar7510 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 10:05 pm 10 bucks says @JeBuS 's next question is what happens re: Mission Specialists when you beam away those 1000 Tribbles.
Well, the key to remember is that you can't create mission specialists, only destroy them. (Well, until you remove whatever card is making them Not Specialists, and then they get un-destroyed.)
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By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Delta Quadrant
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1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2024
#628662
boromirofborg wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:17 am I seriously wonder if it would be a bad thing to just errata AMS/ASP to say "printed" skills. Does it make them too strong if they gain extra skills? Especially not that AMS doesn't go crazy on points?
hmm...
If we say "once a mission specialist, always a mission specialist", it seems to me that would simplify the rules involving Specialists. Let's see...
[Obj] Assign Mission Specialists
Seeds or plays on table. You may download to one of your outposts up to two different mission specialists (personnel whose only printed skill is a regular skill) if no copies you own are in play. Once each mission, your mission specialist may score 5 points when they use their printed skill to meet a mission requirement. You may voluntarily discard objective at start of any of your turns. (Unique.)
Glossary
This objective has two effects. First, it allows a one-time download of two mission specialists to an outpost (not to any other type of facility). If you choose to use the optional download, you must do so immediately upon seeding or playing the objective. (The mission specialists are not seed cards.) If you wish to play another Assign Mission Specialists later to download two more specialists, you must first discard the one in play at the start of your turn. (See unique and universal.)

If the download of the mission specialists is prevented by the activation of Computer Crash�[link to card], the objective remains in play on the table for its second function. The download opportunity is permanently lost.

Second, while you have any Assign Mission Specialists card in play, any mission specialists you have in play (regardless of whether downloaded or played normally) score 5 points when using their printed skill to complete a mission (once per mission). See use (skills).

For example, the mission Reported Activity requires Navigation + Honor x2. It is solved by the following Away Team: mission specialists B'iJik (Navigation), Konmel (Navigation), Kahless (Honor x2), and two copies of Batrell (Honor), plus non-mission specialist Governor Worf (Honor x2 plus other skills). Any of the mission specialists may score 5 points. Batrell need not meet the entire requirement to store the points;�Kahless�may choose to contribute only 1 Honor (to allow Batrell to score the points, if it matters who scores them), and�Governor Worf need not use his Honor at all.

A skill with a multiplier, such as Honor x2, is one skill. Any special skill, including a special download, disqualifies a personnel from being a mission specialist. For example, Tarus (Stellar Cartography) and Kahless (Honor x2) are both mission specialists. John Doe, whose only skill is a special skill, and Madam Guinan, who has two skills (one regular and one special), are not mission specialists.

You cannot create a mission specialist by removing skills from a multi-skilled personnel (e.g., with Tsiolkovsky Infection). If a card replaces a mission specialist's single skill with another regular skill (e.g., Reflection Therapy), that personnel remains a mission specialist. If a personnel loses mission specialist status due to a card such as a Medical Kit or Mot's Advice, that personnel regains it if separated from the kit or if the card is nullified. If a card changes a mission specialist's skills (e.g. Reflection Therapy, 1,000 Tribbles - Discard, Medical Kit, or Mot's Advice), that personnel remains a mission specialist.
Now, the wording above allows you to score points if they've gained a skill, so long as they use their printed skill when solving. Seems reasonable, considering the scoring limit recently added to AMS.

It does remove the ability to Reflection Therapy a specialist to swap to a different skill and score points with that, though. Feels like a fair trade to me. Others may disagree.

Definitely feels simpler to me, though.

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