[Dukat]

Hi guys,

is it possible to convert one of the card draws that forms the starting hand, into a download using Tribunal of Q?

[JeBuS]

Converting card draws doesn't appear to be one of the things you can do during the seed phase.

But... the rulebook says the seed phases have ended prior to drawing your opening hand.

So... I see a crack.

[Jono]

Converting card draws doesn't appear to be one of the things you can do during the seed phase.

But... the rulebook says the seed phases have ended prior to drawing your opening hand.

So... I see a crack.

You need to read the new Current Rulings which state "You cannot draw cards without a hand." That means until you have seven cards in your opening hand, you cannot draw cards which you can turn into downloads.

[AllenGould]

But... the rulebook says the seed phases have ended prior to drawing your opening hand.

So... I see a crack.

It's still listed in the seed phase section.

[JeBuS]

You need to read the new Current Rulings which state "You cannot draw cards without a hand." That means until you have seven cards in your opening hand, you cannot draw cards which you can turn into downloads.

You're probably correct. Except... that's specifically for things that happen in the seed phase. See below...

It's still listed in the seed phase section.

I don't think that matters, because it literally states the seed phases are over.


Basically, if the rules state that the seed phase is over before doing it, then the act of drawing your hand cannot be a seed phase action.

[AllenGould]

So, there's a Secret Third Phase between Seed and Play?

That would mean you can also do all your downloads immediately in the Secret Window, since GQ won't apply yet.

[JeBuS]

I am only repeating what the rules actually say.

[JeBuS]

So, my opinion is that we probably don't want to have convert-to-downloads happening with the opening hand. Mostly because, I don't have even an inkling what the repercussions would be. Doesn't seem like it'd be healthy to expose that crack at the moment.

My suggestion would be for Rules to make a quick change to 4.4.2 to swap the order of sentences / phrases.

The facility phase continues until both players announce they have no more cards to seed by saying "pass." Once both players have passed, show your opponent any seed cards you did not use (including unseeded Sites), then place them out-of-play. Both players shuffle their draw decks and place them face-down on the table, then draw seven concealed cards to form a starting hand. The seed phases are complete. Your table may look something like this:

[BCSWowbagger]

Hi guys,

is it possible to convert one of the card draws that forms the starting hand, into a download using Tribunal of Q?

No.

This ruling is official.

I'll see whether we need anything else in the rules to make this stick but I wanted to put a stop to it immediately in case anyone has an event soon where they were considering using it.

[Dukat]

Why not simply add a line to the Rulesbook?

Original:

The facility phase continues until both players announce they have no more cards to seed by saying "pass." Once both players have passed, the seed phases are complete. Show your opponent any seed cards you did not use (including unseeded Sites), then place them out-of-play. Both players shuffle their draw decks and place them face-down on the table, then draw seven concealed cards to form a starting hand. Your table may look something like this:

Instead, use this:

The facility phase continues until both players announce they have no more cards to seed by saying "pass." Once both players have passed, the seed phases are complete. Show your opponent any seed cards you did not use (including unseeded Sites), then place them out-of-play. Both players shuffle their draw decks and place them face-down on the table, then draw seven concealed cards to form a starting hand (none of them may be (in any way) converted to a download of any kind). Your table may look something like this:

[DataNoh]

You need to read the new Current Rulings which state "You cannot draw cards without a hand." That means until you have seven cards in your opening hand, you cannot draw cards which you can turn into downloads.

Where this rule? I don't understand what it means or what the purpose is. My hand only has seven cards because I drew them. Wouldn't such a rule prevent me from ever drawing my starting hand?

[Ashigaru]

What it means is that until you have your opening hand, effects which would let you draw a card won't work. (The interaction that triggered the change was seeding Strategic Base on Make New Home, then using A New Earth to download an outpost, thus drawing 3 cards before your opening hand. You can't do that now.

[Professor Scott]

What it means is that until you have your opening hand, effects which would let you draw a card won't work. (The interaction that triggered the change was seeding Strategic Base on Make New Home, then using A New Earth to download an outpost, thus drawing 3 cards before your opening hand. You can't do that now.

Technically, you never could. The whole point was to make sure it was clear that you couldn't.

[Jono]

You need to read the new Current Rulings which state "You cannot draw cards without a hand." That means until you have seven cards in your opening hand, you cannot draw cards which you can turn into downloads.

Where this rule? I don't understand what it means or what the purpose is. My hand only has seven cards because I drew them. Wouldn't such a rule prevent me from ever drawing my starting hand?

Check the Current Rulings PDF which is linked to under First Edition.

The rule means until you have a starting hand (which you form after the seed phase) ... you cannot use any game text to draw cards. And because you cannot draw cards until after you form your starting hand, you also cannot use game text that lets you turn downloads in card draws or card draws into downloads.

The issue some people are having is the phrase "draw seven cards to form a starting hand." That does not mean the same thing as a "card draw" during the game. It just means you start the game with seven cards period. It could also be written as "shuffle your draw deck and then take the top seven cards of it to form a starting hand."

[Dukat]

Actually, it might be a wise idea to change the wording exactly as you call it.

That eliminates ANY confusion, making clear that those 7 cards are not 'draws'.