Check out the trials and troubles of the first Will of the Collective, where the community designed a card for the first time!

Which submission should become Consume Me!'s gametext?

Submission A
1
2%
Submission B
4
8%
Submission C
6
12%
Submission D
1
2%
Submission E
13
27%
Submission F
16
33%
Submission G
7
14%
Submission H
1
2%
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#8560
Mogh wrote:How can we push for B? It's a big loser right now. Can we steal this election?
I wouldn't know about that. I like to hold off on my vote as quite often the discussion can change my mind. I think B has my vote, though.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8565
Mogh wrote:How can we push for B? It's a big loser right now. Can we steal this election?
The problem for B is that it isn't all that likely that the dilemma to go off. First, the Damage dilemma must already be under the mission which means that it must have already been faced (and passed) or put underneath by a previous consume dilemma. So in most cases we're looking at at least a second mission attempt by which time it'll be set up. Then, you need to draw into a consume dilemma and Consume Me!-B just happens to be sitting on top of your dilemma pile ready to be consumed. Especially without the text I'm suggestion in the Decision# 5.1 topic, the likelyhood of all these stars coming into alignment is pretty small. Add to that, the damage dilemma's damage, in most cases won't be able to affect the mission attempt directly. Not that B would be useless, but that it becomes a niche dilemma for quite a small niche... which translates into a dilemma that is not likely to be used by most piles or very often. I think we want our first "community" card to be one that will see quite a lot of play, not a niche card.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#8570
CFHollister wrote:
Mogh wrote:How can we push for B? It's a big loser right now. Can we steal this election?
The problem for B is that it isn't all that likely that the dilemma to go off. First, the Damage dilemma must already be under the mission which means that it must have already been faced (and passed) or put underneath by a previous consume dilemma. So in most cases we're looking at at least a second mission attempt by which time it'll be set up. Then, you need to draw into a consume dilemma and Consume Me!-B just happens to be sitting on top of your dilemma pile ready to be consumed. Especially without the text I'm suggestion in the Decision# 5.1 topic, the likelyhood of all these stars coming into alignment is pretty small. Add to that, the damage dilemma's damage, in most cases won't be able to affect the mission attempt directly. Not that B would be useless, but that it becomes a niche dilemma for quite a small niche... which translates into a dilemma that is not likely to be used by most piles or very often. I think we want our first "community" card to be one that will see quite a lot of play, not a niche card.
Alot of that about stars coming into alignment is true for many of the ideas, so I'm not sure I buy it. And as for getting a Damage dilemma beneath a mission, I'm telling you. That is a great point. Let them skill (or even cheat) their way past it. Then hit them with it anyway. It's awesome. You can definitely pull it off on the first mission attempt. You just need to proceed it with a Damage dilemma. If the dilemma hits, cool. If not, you have the backup plan in Consume Me.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8572
The Guardian wrote:Alot of that about stars coming into alignment is true for many of the ideas, so I'm not sure I buy it.
True enough, that's why I'm making such a push for the "Place..." text I'm suggesting over in Decision# 5.1 topic ;). Too me, I just see that kind of text as essential to getting any final Consume Me! into dilemma piles on a regular basis.
The Guardian wrote:And as for getting a Damage dilemma beneath a mission, I'm telling you. That is a great point. Let them skill (or even cheat) their way past it. Then hit them with it anyway. It's awesome. You can definitely pull it off on the first mission attempt. You just need to proceed it with a Damage dilemma. If the dilemma hits, cool. If not, you have the backup plan in Consume Me.
Except in most cases (though not all), if the damage hits, all the personnel are stopped and the consume dilemma you were planning on following it up with gets automatically overcome. Sounds a bit risky to me...
Last edited by CFHollister on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#8577
CFHollister wrote:
The Guardian wrote:And as for getting a Damage dilemma beneath a mission, I'm telling you. That is a great point. Let them skill (or even cheat) their way past it. Then hit them with it anyway. It's awesome. You can definitely pull it off on the first mission attempt. You just need to proceed it with a Damage dilemma. If the dilemma hits, cool. If not, you have the backup plan in Consume Me.
Except in most cases (though not all), if the damage hits, all the personnel are stopped and the consume dilemma you were planning on following it up with gets automatically overcome. Sounds a bit risky to me...
Ah, I wasn't clear enough. While that is definitely a possibility of a risk you could take, I was suggesting that while you were selecting dilemmas, you had the choice of giving your opponent a Damage dilemma that you knew was going to hit or (if you have been tracking skills and/or cheating abilities) give them the Damage dilemma anyway to be overcome and select your choice of Consume dilemma to hurt them and get the Damage on the ship anyway. Totally possible with a well-built dilemma pile. And you would end up with 1 or 2 dilemmas beneath the mission (with the right Consume dilemma). It gets even easier at a planet mission as space dilemmas are automatically overcome.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8582
MilesStuntDouble wrote:Why is F so popular? It is totally uninteresting.
Because I think it most directly addresses the main percieved problem with using consume dilemmas: the often exorbitant cost inherent in consume.

Basically there are two ways to address that perception (assuming that the perception is valid, which I think it is): 1) systemically reduce the cost of consume, or 2) systemically increase the effect of consume. I think #2 faces the challange of either becoming too specific in its effect(s) (a niche dilemma), or risks becoming over-powered. On the other hand #1 simply and directly deals with the problem.
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By CaptMDKirk (Matt Kirk)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#8608
MilesStuntDouble wrote:Why is F so popular? It is totally uninteresting.
It shows that more players would rather have simple effects than potentially game-breaking ones.
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 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#8612
CaptMDKirk wrote:
MilesStuntDouble wrote:Why is F so popular? It is totally uninteresting.
It shows that more players would rather have simple effects than potentially game-breaking ones.
At the least, they'd rather have tools than instruction manuals. F has the feel of a combo piece - it doesn't look scary until it's combined.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#8653
@ last three posts:

First, the whole idea of the concept was to give consume an added benefit. So using "the high-cost of consume" to justify choosing F does not make complete sense.

Also, just because an ability is simple or non-game-breaking does not make it uninteresting.

In addition, I really do not see how the dilemma would "combo" too well with other dilemmas- especially when the chosen dilemma goes on the bottom of the dilemma pile. Not to say that it cannot be done- but considering the card will be in no means consistent, the effect should be good on its own- which frankly F is not.

Vote E, it still reduces the cost (or increases the effect- however it appears to you) of Consume, it is simple and not game breaking, but nonetheless, is interesting. And lastly, it is an effect that is good and positive on its own.
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 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#8762
I voted for E because I think it is the purest effect for what the concept was trying to do. It is essentially a consume-1 if you happen to consume the dilemma. It also patches some of the issues I have had with consume piles, which is the unpredictability of the consume. Have you ever played Tragic Turn just to consume another TT? Now if you consume this dilemma later, you can pull back your other TT for later missions. Also, you can reclaim that dilemma that stopped everyone and use Machinations for it next time.

E is good too, but I just think that F represents the concept the best.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Trailblazer
#9003
It has always been our intention to do a runoff vote if two options were close enough during a previous poll. In this case, the difference between Submission E and Submission F was less than 10% of the total votes, which is too close for my comfort.

So, we're adding a step to allow you to decide between the two - and to tell us if you want an additional effect or not. So check out Decision #6 and we'll put this sucker to bed.

-crp
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