Check out the trials and troubles of the first Will of the Collective, where the community designed a card for the first time!

<t>Which submission should become Consume Me!'s gametext?</t>

Submission A
1
2%
Submission B
4
8%
Submission C
6
12%
Submission D
1
2%
Submission E
13
27%
Submission F
16
33%
Submission G
7
14%
Submission H
1
2%
User avatar
Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Prophet
#8458
I hope all of you had a Happy Easter. I can tell you that it was not fun to cut down the submissions for gametext ideas to a handful - not fun at all. But it's been done, and we've arrived at eight (8) choices for you to vote on.

I want to say a few words about the process. As you'll see below, we've changed the trigger slightly, and all of the submissions were altered to match. This was done in response to some play testing/rules questions and in response to your own discussions.

Secondly, you might notice a few wording adjustments to your submitted ideas. Please don't be upset by this; all we've done is massaged the basic idea to match wording conventions and the timing rules. The basic ideas and concepts were not altered.

Finally, we have removed all keywords and "normal" effects from the submissions. Please take a look at Decision 5.1, which is where were going to decide if this dilemma should do something "by itself" or just work when it is placed under a mission by a Consume dilemma.

With that being said, here are the eight (8) choices in a random order. You have until midnight on Sunday, March 30th to decide which will win. Each has been assigned a letter; make sure to match the letter of your favorite submission to the letter above.

Make sure to read all the submissions before you vote!

Submission A
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, discard two cards from hand and your opponent may download up to two cards that have a total cost less than or equal to the total cost of the cards you discarded.


Submission B
When this dilemma is placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma, you may take a Damage dilemma from beneath this mission and place it on a ship at this mission.


Submission C
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, place this dilemma in your core instead. When an opponent's Consume dilemma is revealed from a dilemma stack, place one less dilemma under this mission than that Consume dilemma indicates.


Submission D
When this dilemma is placed beneath your mission by a Consume dilemma, when that dilemma is overcome, return it to its owner's dilemma pile.


Submission E
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, your opponent names a skill. Randomly select a personnel with that skill to be killed.


Submission F
When this dilemma is placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma, the owner of this dilemma may choose a dilemma beneath this mission to return to its owner's dilemma pile.


Submission G
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, for each Q event your opponent commands, he or she may draw a card, and choose a personnel who has Skill or Skill or Skill to be stopped. If you cannot, randomly select a personnel to be killed. Then this dilemma returns to its owner's dilemma pile.


Submission H
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, discard a number of cards from the top of your deck equal to the number of dilemmas beneath this mission.


Feel free to discuss your choices in this thread while we wait for the results!

-crp
Last edited by MidnightLich on Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#8460
MidnightLich wrote:Submission C
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, place this dilemma in your core instead. When an opponent's Consume dilemma is revealed from a dilemma stack, place one less dilemma under this mission than that Consume dilemma indicates.
Holy bejesus, this is powerful! Alot of really great ideas. I think B, F, and H are my favorites right now.

B, simply because I like Damage and they tend to have skill-based ways to cheat past them.

F just fits with the idea in the first place.

H is a great way to even out the drawback of alot of Consume.

Anyone want to argue for these or others?
Last edited by The Guardian on Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#8477
The Guardian wrote:
MidnightLich wrote:Submission C
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, place this dilemma in your core instead. When an opponent's Consume dilemma is revealed from a dilemma stack, place one less dilemma under this mission than that Consume dilemma indicates.
Holy bejesus, this is powerful! Alot of really great ideas. I think B, F, and H are my favorites right now.

B, simply because I like Damage and they tend to have skill-based ways to cheat past them.

F just fits with the idea in the first place.

H is a great way to even out the drawback of alot of Consume.

Anyone want to argue for these or others?
C might seem powerful, but it might not be as powerful as you would make it seem. In order for it to go off you have to consume it. Then after you've consumed a lot all it does it help you consume less. It is probably too powerful, but I'll have to think about it over dinner.

F is too "eh" with regard to the mechanic. Not that it is a bad card, it simply does not get me excited.

H is something that would get me excited, but that is probably not so for very many other players. And while most everyone else would doubt me, this card (as written) is insanely broken.

B is cool. But it seems too narrow. I would also be wary of Damage markers with the Prometheous decks floating around.

E is the one the got my attention the best. It is simple- does something completely unrelated to Comsume, but is directly dilemma related. Anyone dilemma pile can use it. Moreover, it leaves room for text to use the dilemma as normal.

And while I hate to bring it up again, the phrasing sounds off and as The Guardian (or was it AllenGould) pointed out Outmatched actually uses "Consume" as a verb- there is no reason it can't be used here.
Last edited by MilesStuntDouble on Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By YeahToast
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8485
Submission A is an interesting concept that has many possibilities. If you discard two higher costing cards, maybe I get some things I need to further my agenda; but even if you discard two low or 0 cost cards to try and limit the effects, maybe I download two Parting Shots that are setup with the next dilemma? :twisted:

I really like what Submission B is trying to do. There has been plenty of times I have decided to go for a planet mission even if my ship had two damage markers on it. This would make people think twice about that, or at least force them to send multiple ships to a planet mission or shuttle people back and forth from the mission.

Submission C is a good idea, you could partner it with Remarkable Regeneration for a potential Consume -6 :shock:

Submission D is almost like an encouragement to use consume dilemmas. I like it.

Submission E is neat, simple and to the point. An extra kill on top of whatever effects the consume dilemma had.

Submission F is cool, kind of like The Trial Never Ended on a dilemma.

Submission G...anything that encourages more Q cards I like 8)

Submission H is my favorite though. Like The Guardian said I think this is a great way to balance out the consume of several dilemmas. Sure I gave you the mission next turn but you've also lost several cards.
MilesStuntDouble wrote: H is something that would get me excited, but that is probably not so for very many other players. And while most everyone else would doubt me, this card (as written) is insanely broken.
I'm not sure about insanely broken but I see your point. Left alone it would seem to me that the biggest problem would be using something like Temporal Misalignment to consume your dilemma pile and make me discard my deck. That would be brutal (and probably an NPE) but if this were in the meta I think people would find ways around it. That being said I'd be all for slightly altering the text to allow for a limit to the number of discards, either a simple stated limit or one based off of something (dilemma costs, points, attribute etc.)
Last edited by YeahToast on Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8489
My opinions on each card, for what it's worth:

A doesn't really feel like a dilemma. I would prefer something that does more to my opponent, especially if we decide that this card should not have a regular effect.

B is too situational- not only do you have to consume this dilemma, but there has to be a damage card beneath the mission in order for it to work. I like the concept though.

C is powerful, but I like it because of how well it fits with a consume strategy. Maybe it should have requirements (I'd like to see something that awards skill tracking) or an easy, but painful out (like "or your opponent may choose a personnel to be killed")

D is pretty good, especially with dilemmas like Tragic Turn, but there are enough consume dilemmas that return to the pile already (like Zero Hour, Urgency, Royal Hunt etc.) that I am not sure if its worthwhile.

E is a great dilemma, although its a bit blah. What I like about it is that it can be used to set up the consume dilemma itself, a future dilemma or even end the mission attempt right there.

F I really like except for the fact that its useless if it happens to be the first dilemma under. It's great for a pile that does a lot of consuming to get back those crucial dilemmas that didn't even see the light of day due to the consume, plus it effectively puts 1 less dilemma under.

I like G because of its synergy with Q-events, most of which are dilemma related. I can see a nice Q storyline matching up nicely. I am a little bit confused if the "for each Q event" extends to the second half of the sentence, in which case this dilemma could either be very powerful or having too many Q events could come back to bite the opponent in the butt (since its better to have 1 personnel killed than 6 stopped).

I would propose that the clause "this dilemma returns to its owner's dilemma pile" be added to whatever dilemma we choose, unless the effect is already implied or irrelevant. I think that dropping the consume cost of whatever dilemma consumes this dilemma is an added bonus that would make the card worthwhile without having to add "regular" effect.

H doesn't seem to fit in with any consume strategies, which is one of the reasons I don't like this choice. Also, as Miles says, this card is guaranteed broken with a little bit of set up. I don't know if this is what he had in mind, but you can just consume your entire dilemma pile with outmatched or temporal misalignment and get rid of your opponent's deck. I would suggest putting a limit on it if we go with this idea.

I like C, E, F, and G myself.
Last edited by grandnagusmorn on Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By charlie
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#8491
I like G only because it encourages players to use more events, in this case Q events. Any time a new mechanic encourages people to go back to their binders and rethink new ideas and strategies, then that is a good thing.
Last edited by charlie on Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#8499
MilesStuntDouble wrote: And while I hate to bring it up again, the phrasing sounds off and as The Guardian (or was it AllenGould) pointed out Outmatched actually uses "Consume" as a verb- there is no reason it can't be used here.
Wasn't me, although I agree - "When this dilemma is consumed" is shorter and groks better.
Last edited by AllenGould on Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Altoid
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8507
Submission A
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, discard two cards from hand and your opponent may download up to two cards that have a total cost less than or equal to the total cost of the cards you discarded.
As long as opponent can download interrupts when the player facing this dilemma discards zero-cost cards, sure :thumbsup:
Submission B
When this dilemma is placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma, you may take a Damage dilemma from beneath this mission and place it on a ship at this mission.
Not reliable enough and makes this dilemma not useful during a first attempt at a mission.
Submission C
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, place this dilemma in your core instead. When an opponent's Consume dilemma is revealed from a dilemma stack, place one less dilemma under this mission than that Consume dilemma indicates.
It can be a great set-up early game, maybe if it includes one token stop also...
Submission D
When this dilemma is placed beneath your mission by a Consume dilemma, when that dilemma is overcome, return it to its owner's dilemma pile.
The pronouns make it confusing. Which dilemma is going where again? I'd pass on this one...
Submission E
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, your opponent names a skill. Randomly select a personnel with that skill to be killed.
I like, especially if it includes a stop when played normally. Something like "if revealed from dilemma stack, name a skill and stop, if placed by Consume, name a skill and kill"
Submission F
When this dilemma is placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma, the owner of this dilemma may choose a dilemma beneath this mission to return to its owner's dilemma pile.
Maybe we have enough ways to return dilemmas to dilemma pile. If we supercharge this one to two or even three then it has my attention :twisted:
Submission G
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, for each Q event your opponent commands, he or she may draw a card, and choose a personnel who has Skill or Skill or Skill to be stopped. If you cannot, randomly select a personnel to be killed. Then this dilemma returns to its owner's dilemma pile.
This one works :thumbsup:
Submission H
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, discard a number of cards from the top of your deck equal to the number of dilemmas beneath this mission.
The "broken" and "NPE" have already been mentioned. I agree. Someone would set this up to make you fling off your entire draw deck. :thumbsdown:

Can you believe I'm voting for E

[AU]
Last edited by Altoid on Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By RedDwarf (Unjustly Banned)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#8512
Let me start of by saying that I think the dilemma should have a regular effect as well as the consume (sorry, "placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma") effect

A - I like the idea and think it could throw up some interesting gameplay decisions. However, it seems a bit wordy to me, and I'm not sure a regular effect would fit on the card with it.

B - As others have said, this is too situational. First you have to get a damage dilemma overcome beneath this mission, then you have to consume this dilemma (sorry, get "placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma") . Thats going to be difficult. It might have been better if the damage dilemma could have come from any mission.

C - Even wordier than submission A. However, I think this one could work without any regular effect. Ah, the confusion.

D - Nice. This might even convince me to use The Clown: Guillotine

E - Mmm Skill-tracking. I like it

F - An anti-Consume Consume (sorry, "placed beneath this mission by a Consume dilemma") dilemma.

G - Is that short story even going to fit on a card? Good idea though.

H - Oh, man. I could have some fun with this one. I can see it now... Temporal Misalignment: I'll consume 30 dilemmas. Here's hoping I consume this dilemma two or three times :)


There are some good ideas in there, but I'm going to vote for Submission E. Its simple, effective and leaves room for a regular effect.
Last edited by RedDwarf on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#8513
grandnagusmorn wrote:D is pretty good, especially with dilemmas like Tragic Turn, but there are enough consume dilemmas that return to the pile already (like Zero Hour, Urgency, Royal Hunt etc.) that I am not sure if its worthwhile.
I don't think it works with Tragic Turn. It is never overcome.
Last edited by The Guardian on Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By wweist
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8517
MidnightLich wrote: Submission G
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, for each Q event your opponent commands, he or she may draw a card, and choose a personnel who has Skill or Skill or Skill to be stopped. If you cannot, randomly select a personnel to be killed. Then this dilemma returns to its owner's dilemma pile.
Ok, help me out here. This is what I understand to happen with this card:

1. "This Dilemma" (a.k.a. "Consume Me!") is placed beneath a mission
2. For Each <Q Event Commanded by Opponent>
2.a. Opponent Draw Card
AND
2.b. Opponent Choose Personnel to be stopped
OR
2.c. Random Personnel is Killed
3. "This Dilemma" (a.k.a. "Consume Me!") is returned to Dilemma Pile.

So, my questions:
1. Does "Consume Me!" ever remain under the mission?
2. How many "Random Personnel" can be killed?
2.a. Only 1?
OR
2.b. <# of Q Events Commanded by Opponent>

I believe I would reword this entry like this:
When this dilemma is placed beneath a mission by a Consume dilemma, for each Q event your opponent commands, he or she may draw a card. For each Q Event your opponent commands, choose a personnel who has Skill or Skill or Skill to be stopped, otherwise, randomly select a personnel to be killed and this dilemma returns to its owner's dilemma pile.
Last edited by wweist on Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Mogh
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8530
I picked B because I think Damage needs more love, thus driving more love for the Damage-related personnel.
Last edited by Mogh on Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#8544
I voted for B also because i think planet damage could use some love. In a tillman pile it wouldnt be hard to get a space damage dilemma under the mission first. Regardless, i think B could have some fun synergy with Sympathetic Magic.
Last edited by Hoss-Drone on Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#8552
Hoss-Drone wrote:I voted for B also because i think planet damage could use some love. In a tillman pile it wouldnt be hard to get a space damage dilemma under the mission first. Regardless, i think B could have some fun synergy with Sympathetic Magic.
Absolutely! If an opponent chooses everyone to be stopped by Sympathetic Magic, you could play a Consume dilemma the next time and try to make it stick again.

Moreover, the card would take the cheating out of facing those dilemmas. Meeting the requirements of dilemmas has become pretty easy (which is why most dilemmas in the most recent sets have had no requirements), so Damage dilemma piles have taken a hit as most have requirements. B would make those dilemmas come back to bite that interaction, which I think would be good.
Last edited by The Guardian on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
 
By Mogh
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#8556
How can we push for B? It's a big loser right now. Can we steal this election?
Last edited by Mogh on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
German Nationals 2024 (1E)

Done. Your complete decklist. Can't have your […]

Unser Turnier in Köln gestern war ebenfalls[…]

Both these ideas have elements that interest me as[…]

Online CM RELEASE TOURNAMENT

Hello, Here are the 2nd round pairings, courtesy […]