A place for complete-off-topic conversations that have nothing to do with Star Trek. The rules still apply here, stay civil.
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By ShipNerd
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#569044
I temporaly put ( I meant past tense in my post in Misinterpred History thread) Armus on my ban list, during the endless loop of Misinterpred history discussion, to try to find a solution to it. Reading into it that i want Nob/mods ban Armus from the forum is Nobs responsibility. I did not and do not care for Armus being banned. Him being Head Moderator once explains some things to me though.

I made clear Armus "may be as unconvinced as he likes" and i love myselve. Being warned hours *after* that for Nob thinking i have a problem with other people having an opinion. Thats nobs responsibility. Feel free to believe A in the MH thread, i still go for B, even if Armus, Nob or other would have a problem with it.

Suggesting to mods to close the thread, was not the best idea, but suggesting things is totally fine, as adult people can just say yes or no to it.

It is still my right to feel frustrated that discussing with Armus (or in any endless loop) is pointless. Calling it a day and leave everyone his opinion is a
good ending, which i initiated regarding Armus there. So I choose not to discuss with him any further. Which is my free decision.

Yes i am a suggester/contributor. Originaly I suggested to Charlie not to call Ensing Q names and pointed that out to Nob/Mods, suggesting a more paragon behavior as Mods. Both ignored it, unless you count the later warning and calling me Jerk in public (warning) and private message afterwards, as its their responsibility, not mine. I can live with being called a jerk by people. Yet i choose not to consider that behavior a good company for me.

I love myselve, suggest things, be fine with armus not banned (put him on my personal ban list and afterwards tried to understand where he is coming from). I have any right to be frustrated (or have any other feeling) and end caring for armus or Nobs opinion, as i love myselve and do not care for doing a "advocate system" or official request to the mods to appologize. I talked to SuddenKapple how the advocate to moderator system work, but decide against his help. After seeing SuddenKapplas attitude after that, i decide not to have anything to do with him either. I would mod different as it was my post in MH thread after the warning, but that is just me. I would stopp endless loops if 2 sides are not willing to agree to the other (which is fine), as it otherwise get messy and hard to read for others.

Those who care can see all that in the forums. Those who not is also fine. I love myselve, so even if understand would be great, i do not necessary need it. i do not need praise, or lack of criticism from Nob, Charlie, Armus, SuddenKapplas or anyone. I again thank everyone for teaching me that lesson more and more. Free learning.

I consider that if my suggestions/contributions I do for 1 year behind the scenes too, are ignored, stalled/no concrete answer from charlie to MP/Ent-E set, stolen (not currently) or punished, i might choose a community that i care more for. So far still wait for a yes or no to the multiplayer format, as there are a few player I currently care for, like Nial, James(Rules), Maggie etc.

If Mods ban me for suggesting something to them, or having an own opinion or they try to claim other reasons out of their head, that is your responsibility and i can live with it. I don´t want to be around those boss/mod types anyway. I do suggest you love yourselves instead of warn/ban other thought, then you would see my true lovly reasons instead of reading something else into it.

It is in my free choice to consider to stopp contributions (level-up system, that maggie now wants to complete, answering rule questions in the forum, point out balance issues in the past and present, offer cards to design/be a designer (immense ship list) (Ent-E Fed only theme), the multiplayer format /decks for it etc.). Please make a statement about if you want to use the multiplayersystem as unranked scenario. I also asked Jebus to merge my Tournament profile so that I could run tournaments. But that was just a few days ago, I wait some longer, no time pressure here.

However, if a year of free suggestions/contribution/work is not appreciated in my judgment, responded in reasonable time (Leveup up was january 2021, Multiplayer was the most reason suggestion, so 1-2 month for MP) or even punished i might make the choice for you to no longer contribute. Then you would lose a contributor, player, the work i did for free and i free time for other hobbies and other people.

thx for reading.
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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
Socialite
#569048
Doesn't this ignore your own role in the situation? There were alternatives to your own behavior. You could have kept to a rules discussion. You could have skipped making things personal. You could have skipped posting, entirely. I think your narrative in the above post rings hollow.

You can feel frustrated for being caught in a loop, but that frustration should be pointed at yourself. You have the ability to simply exit the loop, via mere inaction.
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#569053
In this post, you appeared to quite explicitly call for Armus to be banned:
put Armus on the ban list so it doesn't happen again.
I submit that it is reasonable to read that as "I want Armus banned because he is disagreeing with me".

In any event, it was not even that post for which I ultimately issued you a warning; that came later.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
Praetor
1E American National Champion 2020
2E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#569076
ShipNerd and I have talked about this elsewhere
He was talking about the mute/ignore function in the forums when he said "Ban List". I am fairly sure this is a case of language misunderstanding
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#569112
pfti wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:42 am ShipNerd and I have talked about this elsewhere
He was talking about the mute/ignore function in the forums when he said "Ban List". I am fairly sure this is a case of language misunderstanding
Yes, upon further explanation it is likely he was referring to that functionality. However the wording of the post makes the other interpretation reasonable.

(And I would further note that ShipNerd was not issued a warning solely for that post.)
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
Praetor
1E American National Champion 2020
2E The Neutral Zone Regional Champion 2021
#569124
nobthehobbit wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:30 pm

Yes, upon further explanation it is likely he was referring to that functionality. However the wording of the post makes the other interpretation reasonable.
This is a terrible take. It proves that the only real standard is does a mod find it potentially objectionalbe with no regard for context, explanation, culture (outside the Mod's) etc.

I am not commenting on other issues, simply suggesting that the example you most recently came back to is a bad one.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#569130
ShipNerd wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:50 pmI talked to SuddenKapple how the advocate to moderator system work, but decide against his help. After seeing SuddenKapplas attitude after that, i decide not to have anything to do with him either.
I guess that is supposed to be me, but I hardly see the resemblance... in the name, nor in what I read about myself. I'll return the former of those two compliments, to help you see -- in this post only -- how annoying that can be.

My attitude?
No, not 'attitude'. What happened is that Shipned found me politely standing my ground regarding the fact that I'm allowed to talk to anyone on my own terms, about publicly posted matters; and that I don't need his permission to (hypothetically) discuss his' and/or the mods' public remarks.

He got frustrated that I only agreed, say 70%, with him. Indeed, he obviously can't handle different opinions, but keeps obscuring this with a lot of pseudo psycho babble.

And, Sipned, my attitude?
No. You managed to, ultimately, alienate someone who -- among other things -- (A) has a lot of patience and goodwill; and (B) was with you on various points; and (C) who possibly understood what (and where it) went wrong before you got the warning.

I posit you had the attitude, right after I told you (out of courtesy) that I might voice my concerns, about matters that were publicly posted, to the mods. (Nothing wrong with that.) I told you in the same PM that, naturally, I would not discuss anything of our private messages with anyone. (Even less wrong with that.)

Sipned was unwilling to talk as a grownup after that, throwing a rather typical tantrum while totally missing the point of my PM: that it's my prerogative to act -- on my own terms -- on the mods' public assessment, if I so wish. I felt it prudent to be transparant to Sipnerd about this possibility; i.e., that I might want to give the mods feedback, regardless of whether Shipned asked me to advocate for him or not.

It was obvious to me that either he didn't want to hear part of what I was saying, or that he didn't care about my POV or where his responsibility ends. (Funny, because he seems to like telling others about that.)
I agreed with him on several things. (Sure, he heard THAT part.) But I had my opinions in those areas already before he contacted me; and I still had the same opinions when he decided to cut off contact.

I did have my (constructive, or 'Sudenesque' as someone called it) criticism on how he behaved in the thread with Armus, and how he could've improved the situation. Perhaps that's where I went wrong... offering constructive criticism to him.

Seriously. Talking so much about amateur psychology and love, yet not having the decency to read PMs that someone takes the effort to write for you?
After you've contacted them? (I'd understand better, if you wrote concise and to the point yourself. But you seem to like to do the talking, not the listening.)
And not even bothering to read and spell their name correctly?
And immediately start complaining when there is a hint of an opposing opinion?

I got so disappointed due to Sipned's inability -- or laziness? -- to understand my sovereignty (i.e., my rights and individuality, aside from any hypothetical advocacy), that I laid my notes for the mods aside, for the time being.

It's not my battle, after all, if this community would ever break apart over miscommunications and -- ironically -- cultural differences. I mean, I seldomly get misunderstood to the extent of a warning, myself. Why should I care if others are misunderstood? Why did I care?

(But if the mods still value my input, and they can handle some constructive criticism -- as opposed to some -- they know where to find me.)
 
By Se7enofMine (ChadC)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#569221
I continually fail to understand what these 'look at me' posts attempt to solve. I dont mean here on trekcc .. just in general.
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By ShipNerd
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#570090
@pfti thx for your support.


The purpose of my post is that i am understood in my good intentions and provide value to the community and make a stand for being treated respectfully, which means i need to tell ("suggest") what that means. So for those who like to understand that here:

The original purpose of what started it all, was to suggest that mods are paragrons and don´t give people (bad) names, like "jerk" (which i avoided in all this, paragonicly), but to state how the person showing a behavior they don´t like how to act instead and change the CoC accordingly (make whats not wanted more clear and also add whats wished and what positive behavior might look like, that was my last post in MH-thread and start modding by "I don´t like behavior x, please do y" that way people would have more respect for mods IMO and the community would be more healthy). Mods invest time and have good intentions to keep the order, i just believe other strategies would serve the community more like awarding the positive behavior of all parties (that nob not just justifies armus as he did, but also my contribution in the MH-thread). That way i could respect mods as neutral and constructive.

My unofficial wish was that the warning was undone. That way i do what i personaly consider more of a paragon behavior focus on stating how i like to be treated respectfully. I consider my wishes that i stated in this post and other posts are ignored / not understood or not wished by others, as the warning stands, thats their responsiblity not mine. I intentionaly did not discuss with posts here as everyone is free to have his opinion. So will I. I try to make positive contributions but if people are namegiving/punishing toward me without the will to cooperate i might ignore them and give them up, as that is my free decision. Since the current mod practies does not meet my standards, i will further reduce my postings and therefore the contribution for trekcc in the forum, in order to not be again draged down to some people´s level. I still have some hope for @MidnightLich making a statement about wheather or not he likes my suggestions, as i believe both the community and his own state would better. I invite you to try to mod with: please don´t do x, do y instead thank you (and avoid the J-word in modding with other people and the CoC). If you choose to not answer i can live with it. Thx for your work to keep trekcc running for, how many years? 14 or something? I am more of a sprinter, doing work fast and then relax for years ;)
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#570091
ShipNerd wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:58 pm @pfti thx for your support.


The purpose of my post is that i am understood in my good intentions and provide value to the community and make a stand for being treated respectfully, which means i need to tell ("suggest") what that means.

<snip>
I would have A LOT more sympathy for this if you hadn't ascribed bad intentions to me in our exchange on the 1e board.

Maybe it was just a language barrier thing, but it sure felt a lot more personal than that to me. I can't speak for anyone else, but I sure didn't appreciate your attempt to turn me into some sort of pariah over a 1e Rules discussion, and I'm guessing most other people wouldn't either.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#570630
@ShipNerd it reads to me like you would prefer we go back to the old CoC and style of moderating? If that is correct let us know as we can probably "shed some light" on why we moved to the current CoC.

Personally I am surprised at your aversion to the work 'jerk'. This must not translate well into your native language (German?) as it is a fairly benign word in American English. I think you are getting stuck in the details as Rule 1 of the CoC is essentially: "Do not be a negative person and at least try to be polite". Read it that way and I think you will be happier
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