A place for complete-off-topic conversations that have nothing to do with Star Trek. The rules still apply here, stay civil.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#514514
The Guardian wrote:...why didn't he message Brian, Maggie, and (maybe) Daniel to suggest they tell people what is going on? To put out a fire before it becomes one? ...
Cuz he shouldn't have had to. They could've told everybody what's going on in the first place.
Sometimes I feel our "leaders" are so afraid of doing something wrong that they rather don't do anything at all. Coincidentally in most of these cases, not doing anything at all is the worst thing you can do.
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#514522
The Guardian wrote:
Naetor wrote:So I don't hate John for making it more public than the Board wanted.
Sorry. I can't agree. It's not his place. Just as it's not his place to publicize anything or talk about goings on. You know why he does? Because he knows we can't respond. We're not going to open the doors and let you see all the sausage being made. You wouldn't want us to. We are an organization with a Communications department. So, if we're playing the "why not" game, why didn't he message Brian, Maggie, and (maybe) Daniel to suggest they tell people what is going on? To put out a fire before it becomes one? I've seen most department heads being open-minded and capable of listening to suggestions. Taking it upon yourself to correct the decisions of those we have agreed to let lead us is wrong, plain and simple. Some people cannot act as grown ups. Some people start the fires. And they shouldn't be welcome.
Who is we? And who are you? I don't see you on the organizational chart. Do you have a hidden Green Badge?
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#514524
monty42 wrote:Cuz he shouldn't have had to. They could've told everybody what's going on in the first place.
Sometimes I feel our "leaders" are so afraid of doing something wrong that they rather don't do anything at all. Coincidentally in most of these cases, not doing anything at all is the worst thing you can do.
I don't completely disagree. I'm designing a set and for a while this week, I didn't know who was in charge to a certain extent. I get it. But in that situation (which, as an individual in this community and with a non-total amount of knowledge, I agree shouldn't have been the case), it would not have been my role to announce it when I did find out. If I felt it needed to get out immediately, I would have urged those in the appropriate position, those that I felt had dropped the ball, to do so. We can get better at more than one thing and two wrongs don't make a right.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#514527
The Guardian wrote:
Naetor wrote:So I don't hate John for making it more public than the Board wanted.
Sorry. I can't agree. It's not his place. Just as it's not his place to publicize anything or talk about goings on. You know why he does? Because he knows we can't respond. We're not going to open the doors and let you see all the sausage being made. You wouldn't want us to. We are an organization with a Communications department. So, if we're playing the "why not" game, why didn't he message Brian, Maggie, and (maybe) Daniel to suggest they tell people what is going on? To put out a fire before it becomes one? I've seen most department heads being open-minded and capable of listening to suggestions. Taking it upon yourself to correct the decisions of those we have agreed to let lead us is wrong, plain and simple. Some people cannot act as grown ups. Some people start the fires. And they shouldn't be welcome.
That line is a bit presumptuous, no? Who are you to decide what people want? There may very well be good reasons to not open all of the doors, but that's driven by internal considerations, not external ones. And speaking of internal considerations, the fact that nothing was shared with the Staff is a problem too. Maybe the public doesn't need to know, but those trying to do the work probably have a need and right to know who's in charge (EDIT: reading your most recent post, I think we're in agreement on this point.)

But leaving that aside, even on the merits, your analysis leaves out Nate's (and others' over the years) basic point that the lack of Communication from CC leadership has been a major problem over the years. If lack of communication is feedback you're getting from engaged community members, maybe open things up a little more and err on the side of oversharing for a change.

And yes, we nominally have a Communications department, but if you haven't noticed, the Communications Director position has been vacant for months now with no applicants. That doesn't help the problem, and definitely doesn't give your "we have a communications department" a lot of weight.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#514528
The Guardian wrote:
monty42 wrote:Cuz he shouldn't have had to. They could've told everybody what's going on in the first place.
Sometimes I feel our "leaders" are so afraid of doing something wrong that they rather don't do anything at all. Coincidentally in most of these cases, not doing anything at all is the worst thing you can do.
I don't completely disagree. I'm designing a set and for a while this week, I didn't know who was in charge to a certain extent. I get it. But in that situation (which, as an individual in this community and with a non-total amount of knowledge, I agree shouldn't have been the case), it would not have been my role to announce it when I did find out. If I felt it needed to get out immediately, I would have urged those in the appropriate position, those that I felt had dropped the ball, to do so. We can get better at more than one thing and two wrongs don't make a right.
I guess what I'm saying is yes, we can call out Corbett for being a dick yet again but we wouldn't need to, if people at the top were doing a better job.
BTW there's still no director of communications but at this point I think the CC would be better off designating a PR officer instead.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#514531
Armus wrote:
The Guardian wrote:You wouldn't want us to.
That line is a bit presumptuous, no?
Maybe a little. I didn't mean it to be. I meant it to be self-evident. Like in the phrase, "There's two things you don't want to see made: laws and sausages." You're probably right that it's more internal. I'm "inside" and I agree with it. People shouldn't see the arguments about every decision. It goes down the path of what could have been and distracts from what is. This is obviously very blanket, but I'd like the freedom to say my piece behind closed doors without having to worry about it being weaponized out here.

An example: I'm on Design and you're in Playtesting (which is actually true; thank you publicly for your efforts). Say you disliked a card or a suite of cards. Say another playtest group disagreed with you. The card or cards come out and the community has a reaction that follows one of the playtest groups. Maybe it's you. Maybe it's the other one. Should I tell everyone who got it "right" or "wrong"? How would the community view the "wrong" one? Would they lose credibility? I'm not going to do that. All mistakes are mine. The ones you advocated for. The ones you warned me against. Nobody gets it all right. But nobody gets to see behind the curtain (to mix metaphors).

Let me put you on the other side: Same situation. I now go behind another set of closed doors and discuss an issue with my team and I present the decision as "We decided..." You have no idea if I overruled my fellow designers or they convinced me or we are all on the same page. If it's not what you thought should happen, is it fair for my other designer to throw me under a bus and tell you, "I told him it was a bad idea."? I understand believing that nobody listened to you, but you don't know that either. In that hypothetical, I'm never going to tell you. I'm sorry.

Again, oversimplified, but we must give people the benefit of the doubt.
Armus wrote:(EDIT: reading your most recent post, I think we're in agreement on this point.)
I believe so.
Armus wrote:...and definitely doesn't give your "we have a communications department" a lot of weight.
Ha. I was just watching the board meeting myself. I know I saw the application back when it was posted, but I don't think I retained the info. Oops.

I've been a more casual member for awhile. And for what I believe is a good reason. Still, I don't hold the communication difficulties against the board. I think they are upset every time. I know I am upset when I keep trying to get something right and keep messing up in the same way. I give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't want their heads. (FYI I'm not assuming you do either, Brian.) You're right: it's just Maggie and Brian S. he should have messaged.
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By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
Chancellor
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2023
2E German National Champion 2022
#514539
The Guardian wrote:
Armus wrote:
The Guardian wrote:You wouldn't want us to.
That line is a bit presumptuous, no?
Maybe a little. I didn't mean it to be. I meant it to be self-evident. Like in the phrase, "There's two things you don't want to see made: laws and sausages." You're probably right that it's more internal. I'm "inside" and I agree with it. People shouldn't see the arguments about every decision. It goes down the path of what could have been and distracts from what is. This is obviously very blanket, but I'd like the freedom to say my piece behind closed doors without having to worry about it being weaponized out here.

An example: I'm on Design and you're in Playtesting (which is actually true; thank you publicly for your efforts). Say you disliked a card or a suite of cards. Say another playtest group disagreed with you. The card or cards come out and the community has a reaction that follows one of the playtest groups. Maybe it's you. Maybe it's the other one. Should I tell everyone who got it "right" or "wrong"? How would the community view the "wrong" one? Would they lose credibility? I'm not going to do that. All mistakes are mine. The ones you advocated for. The ones you warned me against. Nobody gets it all right. But nobody gets to see behind the curtain (to mix metaphors).

Let me put you on the other side: Same situation. I now go behind another set of closed doors and discuss an issue with my team and I present the decision as "We decided..." You have no idea if I overruled my fellow designers or they convinced me or we are all on the same page. If it's not what you thought should happen, is it fair for my other designer to throw me under a bus and tell you, "I told him it was a bad idea."? I understand believing that nobody listened to you, but you don't know that either. In that hypothetical, I'm never going to tell you. I'm sorry.

Again, oversimplified, but we must give people the benefit of the doubt.
Armus wrote:(EDIT: reading your most recent post, I think we're in agreement on this point.)
I believe so.
Armus wrote:...and definitely doesn't give your "we have a communications department" a lot of weight.
Ha. I was just watching the board meeting myself. I know I saw the application back when it was posted, but I don't think I retained the info. Oops.

I've been a more casual member for awhile. And for what I believe is a good reason. Still, I don't hold the communication difficulties against the board. I think they are upset every time. I know I am upset when I keep trying to get something right and keep messing up in the same way. I give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't want their heads. (FYI I'm not assuming you do either, Brian.) You're right: it's just Maggie and Brian S. he should have messaged.
The one mistake you're making here is, you're thinking like a person who's designing cards for thousands of people which is not the case.
You're designing cards for less than a hundred. Presumably less than 50 who actually care.
Most of these people already know what's going on behind the scenes anyway mostly because they're part of it.
My advice is to stop being so precious about what you're doing.
The amount of people who still care about this game is shockingly small. We're all in this boat together so... show me (and everybody) your sausage.
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By TyKajada (Alexander Schmitz)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#514567
monty42 wrote:
.....

The one mistake you're making here is, you're thinking like a person who's designing cards for thousands of people which is not the case.
You're designing cards for less than a hundred. Presumably less than 50 who actually care.
Most of these people already know what's going on behind the scenes anyway mostly because they're part of it.
My advice is to stop being so precious about what you're doing.
The amount of people who still care about this game is shockingly small. We're all in this boat together so... show me (and everybody) your sausage.
This is true. Most stccg players probably know what is going on behind the scenes. I am however player number 51, all this drama is new info to me and I don't know what's happening behind the scenes.
Only thing I notice is the severely different treatment 1e gets in comparison to 2e. (kudos to Charlie's excellent job with 1e).

For me as an 'outsider' more and continuous information would definitely have been nice. But what one gets on the 2e side is no info or a bitchfest on the boards by the usual people.

You know what the CC looks like. They do appear sometimes like people who are deeply afraid they get their favorite toy taken away if they do something wrong or inside information leaks out is is given out voluntarily. Everything has to be kept secret within the inner circle, no-one is to be allowed in....
:P
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By Ashbey (Anastasia Kalashnikova)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#514574
Caretaker's Guest wrote:I am surprised. Even my excuse got deleted.
Your excuse was deleted because David Hines is a filthy racist and criminal, who defamated me in public simply because he and his fellow racists Pareja anf Heppperdt hate me because of my nationality. So naturally he is very sensitive to this kind of statements.

Of course I will be banned for this comment, but only because Hines is agressive coward who is afraid of truth about himself.


User has been warned for this post.
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#514581
Ashbey wrote:
Caretaker's Guest wrote:I am surprised. Even my excuse got deleted.
Your excuse was deleted because David Hines is a filthy racist and criminal, who defamated me in public simply because he and his fellow racists Pareja anf Heppperdt hate me because of my nationality. So naturally he is very sensitive to this kind of statements.

Of course I will be banned for this comment, but only because Hines is agressive coward who is afraid of truth about himself.
Stop derailing gameplay threads because you got your feelings hurt one time. Be a man and get over it, or just leave.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
2E British National Runner-Up 2021
#514672
Ashbey wrote:Of course I will be banned for this comment, but only because I defamed someone, calling them a "filthy racist".
There, FTFY.
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 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#514712
hate me because of my nationality
I sincerely hope this is not true.

Ich bin Mitglied der Linkspartei und finde es unfair, was im Westen für nen Kreuzzug gegen Russland geführt wird. Beispiel Sport: Mir kann keiner erzählen, die Amis würden nicht dopen. Sie dopen alle...
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Director of Second Edition
By tjark
 - Director of Second Edition
 -  
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E German National Second Runner-Up 2022
2E Vandros IV Regional Champion 2023
#514744
Caretaker's Guest wrote:
hate me because of my nationality
I sincerely hope this is not true.

Ich bin Mitglied der Linkspartei und finde es unfair, was im Westen für nen Kreuzzug gegen Russland geführt wird. Beispiel Sport: Mir kann keiner erzählen, die Amis würden nicht dopen. Sie dopen alle...
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#514749
Naetor wrote: Who is we? And who are you?
Come on Nasty Nate... you didn't know what my "Long Live Phase 2!" rantings meant?

You didn't Trust the Process... you stately publicly that I "pushed the game too far in a direction I wanted"...

You reap what you sow bubba

(I'm singling you out, and that's hardly fair, but there's a price to be paid when you're petty and make personality of greater importance that skill, leadership and organizational skills)
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