A place for complete-off-topic conversations that have nothing to do with Star Trek. The rules still apply here, stay civil.
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Should Trekcc.org have a code of conduct?

No. Let people speak their minds and police themselves.
10
16%
Yes, but it needs to be more restrictive than the current CoC.
23
37%
Yes, but it needs to be less restrictive than the current CoC.
10
16%
Yes, and the current CoC is well suited to the task.
20
32%
User avatar
 
By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#449023
Honest wrote: It is all about the delivery
Not when it comes to people with nerd jobs. I'm sorry, but comparing somebody to a 1950's tv show character, or saying somebody's nerd job is easy, doesn't need to be silenced with punishment.

Doing that proves the people in "authority" are weak leaders and don't deserve to be in charge. If the people want to rule wielding the 'risk of the ban hammer' they will fail in the long run. Question is how much damage they do in the meantime.
 
By Honest
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E Australian Continental Champion 2019
#449024
Just to clarify, I wasn't comparing a 1950's TV character to anything. Maybe I am missing a cultural reference?

I take your point, I just disagree.

If I know a road has a speed limit of 60mph, doesn't mean I cannot travel that road, it means if I do and go over the 60mph line, I run the risk of losing my license.

Same with the CC. I know the rules, I know I can be critical, but if I get personal I may get suspended.

An example that was in your favour. When Ken announced World's was in AU, you "took a knee". You said Ken made a bad decision and you weren't going to participate in OP until, the situation changed. From memory, you didn't get banned for that (that I remember), you made a point and stayed within the CoC.

You can change things by staying within the CoC guidelines.

Honest
User avatar
Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#449028
KillerB wrote:
Latok wrote: pandering to 10 assholes
I think we're done here. I'm sorry you couldn't debate like a civilized person.
I've already told you Corbett I'm not debating you because I'm not interested in your bad faith discussion, what I will do for you is occasionally reply to some of your nonsense.
 
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Community Contributor
#449029
KillerB wrote:
MattgomeryScott wrote:
In conclusion, a lawless wild west may sound like fun to some, but it really, really isn't.

Mattgomery Scott.
You were making reasonable points, but when you conclude with this it means you didn't listen to the other side. Once again, nobody is advocating for abolishing the CoC.

Please people, listen to the other side.
While I cannot claim to be across all aspects of this (as I'm not as active here as I once was,) I did read the original post in this thread, the poll options and many of the posts in this thread, as well as your thread on the topic "The Poll Sykes' Should've Posted" and the relevant passages of the CoC before posting. Given that abolishing the CoC is both an option in this poll, and one that at time of posting has 15% of the vote, it does appear to me to be one option being discussed, and one I am fundamentally opposed to.

Even if, as you say, the abolishing of the CoC is not on the table, it seems to me from the above sources that some are advocating changes to the relevant rules which would largely have the same effect.

The CoC in general, and specifically Rule 11 and its subsections, are to me very reasonable, and perhaps even a little lenient. In my view there is no justification for anyone to be "belittling, disparaging, denigrating, harassing, threatening, bullying, or cruel towards another person." In an ideal world we wouldn't even have to have that rule, it should just go without saying. But we don't live in an ideal world. And so, if having that spelt out in the CoC (and appropriate penalties for violating it) is what is necessary for us to have a civil discussion, then so be it.

I appreciate that for some this sort of "banter" is deemed acceptable, and if they wish to use it between themselves, in private and with mutual consent then that's really up to them. But these forums and this site are, since the demise of Decipher, the official site for this game and therefore it is necessary for this site to be suitable for all. As is stated in Rule 10:

"10. Moderated forums are intended for all members of the Star Trek CCG community, including young players and learners."

A site which allows "belittling, disparaging, denigrating, harassing, threatening, bullying, or cruel towards another person" is in my view in violation of Rule 10, and cannot be said to be one suitable for all.

For similar reasons, I'm personally disappointed to see Rule 12 (the ban on profanity) has been repealed at some point, and voted for the CoC to be made more stringent partly because of this.

Neither of us want to see people feeling they have to leave over this, or told to "go someplace else." But that is precisely what happens in a community where people are allowed to act in this sort of abusive way without consequence. It may not make such a big "splash" as say a well known member of the community receiving a ban for their conduct, but it is still detrimental to the individual players, the community and the game as a whole, when players start leaving because it's either that or put up with being bullied or seeing others bullied.

It seems to me that it is upon those repeatedly falling afoul of Rule 11 to modify their behaviour to be consistent with the rules, which are to my mind fair and reasonable and largely consistent with the basic conduct expected in most communities to allow for civil discussion. If, after being given plenty of chances (see Rules 13 through 13d) they still cannot do so, then as an ultimate recourse I think a ban is in order. It's not something I want to see done, but it is something that I feel may sometimes be necessary for the good of the community as a whole.

So, in conclusion, I do not see a need to modify Rule 11 and its subsections, as they seem clear to me. If someone acts in such a fashion as to break those rules, I believe appropriate measures should be taken in accordance with Rule 13 through 13d. And I'd personally like to see Rule 12 reinstated. But I respect others feel differently.

All the Best,

Mattgomery Scott.

EDIT: Just to be clear, my comments both in this and my earlier post are not directed at any specific person or persons in the group. I'm arguing for why I believe we need the CoC and Rule 11 specifically, not discussing any particular case or the actions of any particular people. I would not feel qualified to do so, given my lack of activity here and not being across all aspects of the discussion. I also only support permanbans in the absolute most extreme cases, as I believe people can change and usually deserve a second chance. Thank you.
Last edited by MattgomeryScott on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#449041
In a normal environment the CoC would work. Unfortunately in this forum we have those guys. Guys who bend to rules to justify the way they break them. Those people have way too much experience in evading and trolling. And all that with "respecting" the CoC. They only have to bend it here and there.

So, the current CoC doesn´t work here. Because of those individuals. The recent years have shown that.

And yes, permabans are a good thing. Those who deserved it should have stayed out. In the hobby, but out of the forum.
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 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#449859
Armus wrote:
AllenGould wrote:
Mogor wrote: getting a little tired of accounts being created for this purpose of trolling the boards
I'm just waiting for the official word that it's not sanctionable - I may never use the same account again!
It's definitely sanctionable. We're looking into the details on who this is.
While you're looking into this, can you find my real account details? The "lost my password" functionality and PM inquiries haven't worked since last year.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#449860
Naetor.Ret wrote:While you're looking into this, can you find my real account details? The "lost my password" functionality and PM inquiries haven't worked since last year.
I'll PM you. What are you looking for? The email address associated with the Naetor account?
User avatar
First Edition Rules Master
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Community Contributor
#449872
Armus wrote: We're looking into the details on who this is.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but why isn't the account banned now? You can sort out who's on the other end later, but it's pretty clear it's *someone's* sock puppet.
User avatar
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#449883
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Naetor.Ret wrote:While you're looking into this, can you find my real account details? The "lost my password" functionality and PM inquiries haven't worked since last year.
I'll PM you. What are you looking for? The email address associated with the Naetor account?
Yeah, kinda. I think a decade ago I had a pre-CC account merged with a post-CC account and the former had an email address I no longer have access to. If you're able to reset this or send me details to do so, I'd appreciate it -- e.g., I can't link decks from this account.
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By Nerdopolis Prime (Nerdopolis Prime)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#449978
Oh, a new member trolling around ... mmmh, who might that be?

One of "those guys" for sure.
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