A place for complete-off-topic conversations that have nothing to do with Star Trek. The rules still apply here, stay civil.
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Should Trekcc.org have a code of conduct?

No. Let people speak their minds and police themselves.
10
16%
Yes, but it needs to be more restrictive than the current CoC.
23
37%
Yes, but it needs to be less restrictive than the current CoC.
10
16%
Yes, and the current CoC is well suited to the task.
20
32%
User avatar
 
By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#448821
prylardurden wrote:
KillerB wrote:
For a star trek message board we should have higher aspirations.
Sorry, thats a negative.
Exactly. In a world that wants to divide everyone into groups because it's easier to win that way, we should be better. Let's hope a silly sci-fi show 20 years ago taught us better.
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#448855
KillerB wrote:
MattgomeryScott wrote:
In conclusion, a lawless wild west may sound like fun to some, but it really, really isn't.

Mattgomery Scott.
You were making reasonable points, but when you conclude with this it means you didn't listen to the other side. Once again, nobody is advocating for abolishing the CoC.

Please people, listen to the other side.
That's not actually true though.
You want the CoC 'clarified' to make it effectively non-existent or for it to be enforced 'fairly' which really just means remove Boffo as a moderator but that also effectively abolishes the CoC because he's the only moderator that moderates.
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#448857
KillerB wrote:
Mogor wrote:
Except that the other side has repeatedly made demands in the past to abolish it and has hitched their horse to that post, so yah folks are listening too the "real demands"

-- Back on topic, it's clear that the majority consensus is at a minimal for the CoC remaining as is if not getting more strict
*sigh* once again, you're using the strawman of arguments people made 3+ years ago before the COC was implemented.

--on topic, I concede that the 'combined majority' is for as is/stricter, but what % of people wanting change are you comfortable telling to 'go someplace else' (this is arguments your side is making now)?

I *think* it kinda breaks down 1/3 make changes, 1/3 leave as/is, 1/3 stricter. I can only speak for myself, but I don't want to be part of any community to tells 1/3 of it's people who feel a system is unfair to 'go someplace else'.
They don't have to 'go someplace else', they can deal with it or go someplace else. Also which 1/3 are told to go someplace else, the 'stricter' or 'make changes' group?

You're trying to frame this argument like a compromise would be a reasonable thing but how it is now is the compromise. There was way to much effort, as James has explained, put in to implementing the CoC and moderation to try and appease some unappeasable people. Rather than the 1/3 who won't be happy regardless of any 'changes', why not compromise with the 1/3 who want it stricter.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#448915
Latok wrote: That's not actually true though.
You want the CoC 'clarified' to make it effectively non-existent or for it to be enforced 'fairly' which really just means remove Boffo as a moderator but that also effectively abolishes the CoC because he's the only moderator that moderates.
This is why we can't have fruitful discussions, because every point I make it returned with 'liar! This is what you really mean'.

I don't want Hines fired. You have me confused with someone else.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#448916
Latok wrote: They don't have to 'go someplace else', they can deal with it or go someplace else. Also which 1/3 are told to go someplace else, the 'stricter' or 'make changes' group?

why not compromise with the 1/3 who want it stricter.
"deal with it or leave" is the same as "if you don't like it, leave". You're trying smooth over the nasty things people were saying in the Sykes' poll.

Maybe Sykes does compromise with the '1/3 stricter' group. You think that is good for business?
 
By Honest
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E Australian Continental Champion 2019
#448984
Everyone, including the 1/3 who want "looser" CoC terms, were all getting on relatively well for the last 2.5ish years. It was only when John got sacked and people started bagging the CC in unacceptable CoC terms that the CoC came into question.

I believe this fight has morphed from 'John shouldn't have been sacked', a CC issue, into a "why can't I call people in the CC brainless, conspiring dickheads until John gets reinstated or Ross gets sacked", which of course contravenes the CoC, and forces the mods to act. I think they (the mods) do a good job, however, them sanctioning some of the dissidents has dragged them into a bad place, because it enabled those calling the CC brainless, conspiring dickheads to point at the sanctioned and scream "UNFAIR! Look!"

Had John not gotten sacked, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

2/3 of those who voted things are fine, or too loose. Surely that is a mandate for things to stay the same at worst? The 1/3 proved they are cool with things for the last 2.5ish years, the issue is the CC, which we can do something about currently with the POR

I hope the CoC remains in place, unchanged. I hope John you get more transparency with the hiring/firing processes of the CC, and perhaps you get involved with the design process again in the future, should you choose to

Mods, thanks for doing a tough gig

Honest
Last edited by Honest on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#448987
Honest wrote:
Had John not gotten sacked, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Honest
That's not the case. Unless Hines got trigger happy thinking I was a wounded animal. Let's both hope that's not the case.

All of a sudden a new mod started trying 'lay down the law', as he saw it, and then we got some bad calls and bad explanations for upholding bad calls.

Your logic is appealing. It just makes me the problem, with an easy solution.
 
By Honest
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E Australian Continental Champion 2019
#448988
KillerB wrote:
Honest wrote:


You're logic is appealing. It just makes me the problem, with an easy solution.
I don't think you are the problem at all. I believe some people in the CC cannot stand you and try to screw you over whenever they get the chance. In the POV footage I saw the other night, Ross tried to make a case as to why he sacked you, it wasn't convincing. (again, nothing against Nathan)

Like I said above, the CoC wasn't even being talked about until you got sacked. It is unfortunate that two different issues have been connected.

I am pro CC reforms, but against CoC reforms.

Honest
User avatar
 
By Mogor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#448996
Honest wrote:
KillerB wrote:
Honest wrote:


You're logic is appealing. It just makes me the problem, with an easy solution.
I don't think you are the problem at all. I believe some people in the CC cannot stand you and try to screw you over whenever they get the chance. In the POV footage I saw the other night, Ross tried to make a case as to why he sacked you, it wasn't convincing. (again, nothing against Nathan)

Like I said above, the CoC wasn't even being talked about until you got sacked. It is unfortunate that two different issues have been connected.

I am pro CC reforms, but against CoC reforms.

Honest
It's a subset of folks that agree John's dismissal was an issue, I disagree with the how it was done, I don't disagree with it, itself. John's history is too controversial for a position that influences how people view the game. It was fine, when he was the fellow behind the curtain, but when the curtain got pulled back he became a liability not an asset
User avatar
Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#449011
KillerB wrote:
Latok wrote: That's not actually true though.
You want the CoC 'clarified' to make it effectively non-existent or for it to be enforced 'fairly' which really just means remove Boffo as a moderator but that also effectively abolishes the CoC because he's the only moderator that moderates.
This is why we can't have fruitful discussions, because every point I make it returned with 'liar! This is what you really mean'.

I don't want Hines fired. You have me confused with someone else.
Oh right, I forget you can lump everyone not agreeing with you in to one basket but how dare I attribute Sheet's and Hosp's demands to you as well, if only you had any idea what a good faith discussion was.
All of a sudden a new mod started trying 'lay down the law', as he saw it, and then we got some bad calls and bad explanations for upholding bad calls.
Not out to get Boffo though, I definitely believe you Corbett.
User avatar
Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#449012
KillerB wrote:
Latok wrote: They don't have to 'go someplace else', they can deal with it or go someplace else. Also which 1/3 are told to go someplace else, the 'stricter' or 'make changes' group?

why not compromise with the 1/3 who want it stricter.
"deal with it or leave" is the same as "if you don't like it, leave". You're trying smooth over the nasty things people were saying in the Sykes' poll.

Maybe Sykes does compromise with the '1/3 stricter' group. You think that is good for business?
You're solution is change it so 2/3 don't like it, just to make yourself happier....

Going stricter would be much worse but I'll take that over pandering to 10
assholes
that can't abide by some simple rules any day.

Mod Edit [Boffo97]: User was warned for this post.
User avatar
 
By KillerB (John Corbett)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
Community Contributor
#449018
Honest wrote:It is unfortunate that two different issues have been connected.

Honest
It is. The only way they're connected is that people are getting rung up for dissent. If you're pro-CC reform then you can't support a system that stifles free speech. How else can people reorganize dysfunctional hierarchies?
 
By Honest
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E Australian Continental Champion 2019
#449022
KillerB wrote:
Honest wrote:It is unfortunate that two different issues have been connected.

Honest
It is. The only way they're connected is that people are getting rung up for dissent. If you're pro-CC reform then you can't support a system that stifles free speech. How else can people reorganize dysfunctional hierarchies?
This is where I disagree with you. I think the CC needs a clean out. There are too many cliques and redundant positions. I can say that and not be sanctioned because I haven't said anything detrimental to anyone personally, I am not being abusive and (theoretically) can back up my opinion. The CoC allows for this, and for the 2.5 years people have, generally, chosen this approach.

The CoC doesn't allow for me saying "the CC/X Member is/are incompetent (insert bad name here) because they made stoopid decisions I don't agree with". Post your removal, that is what happened.

I may or may not believe the second expression, but I know if I express myself like that, I run the risk of a ban hammer.

That is where I can agree the CC needs a clean out, but the CoC doesn't. It is all about the delivery

Cheers

Honest
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