[KillerB]

Discuss.

[bosskamiura]

Oh boy. This is going to start some shit.

TK

[BCSWowbagger]

This seems more like Moderatorial Dialogue fodder than CoC revision stuff.

One thing that was in the original CoC proposal that wasn't adopted was a Moderation forum where users could come and talk about moderation/the CoC without polluting other forums. Mostly, the Moderatorial Dialogue Thread has served that purpose for us, but things like these polls don't fit in well there. And they certainly don't fit in well in The Buzz. I wonder whether anything can be done to channel these discussions someplace other than The Buzz without creating a new forum for them.

But I digress.

As for the poll, I think it's badly constructed. I don't think the CoC has been enforced fairly. It's close, but I think the mod team has, in general, been a little more generous and forbearing toward you and a couple of comrades than they have been toward others.

But if I vote "no, it has not been enforced fairly," my vote ends up lumped in with bhosp's vote, even though hosp (I strongly suspect) believes exactly the opposite thing.

When two people who believe opposite things end up casting the same vote in a poll, it's not a good poll.

[Naetor.Ret]

Discuss.

Relax. Something is coming.

[bosskamiura]

Relax. Something is coming.

Sick burn.

TK

[AllenGould]

I wonder whether anything can be done to channel these discussions someplace other than The Buzz without creating a new forum for them.

I wonder what the issue is with creating a subforum for Mod Discussions - looking over at the OP forum there doesn't seem to be an aversion to them...

[BCSWowbagger]

Maybe if the mods asked Mael/MidnightLich nicely they'd be willing now. The objection I anticipate is "that will just fuel these arguments forever," but, hey, we already have that. The forum would contain them.

But I dunno. We'll see if anyone but me likes the idea.

[KillerB]

As for the poll, I think it's badly constructed. I don't think the CoC has been enforced fairly. It's close, but I think the mod team has, in general, been a little more generous and forbearing toward you and a couple of comrades than they have been toward others.

Ok, I also think the past few days has shown the bar is higher for one group of people then others to get a violation. So if the system can be flawed on many sides, many we should look at the Report Button?

[AllenGould]

As for the poll, I think it's badly constructed. I don't think the CoC has been enforced fairly. It's close, but I think the mod team has, in general, been a little more generous and forbearing toward you and a couple of comrades than they have been toward others.

Ok, I also think the past few days has shown the bar is higher for one group of people then others to get a violation. So if the system can be flawed on many sides, many we should look at the Report Button?

Sounds like it meets the BBC definition of fairness (where all sides think the network is out to get them and lenient to the other side. (Unless I'm misreading and you're agreeing that you're getting more forbearance than others do.)

[KillerB]

But if I vote "no, it has not been enforced fairly," my vote ends up lumped in with bhosp's vote, even though hosp (I strongly suspect) believes exactly the opposite thing.

When two people who believe opposite things end up casting the same vote in a poll, it's not a good poll.

Stop thinking in tribes. You don't believe in opposite things, you've succumbed to identity politics, Ben has not.

If the system is unfair for anyone person, then it's unfair for everyone.

[KillerB]

Sounds like it meets the BBC definition of fairness (where all sides think the network is out to get them and lenient to the other side. (Unless I'm misreading and you're agreeing that you're getting more forbearance than others do.)

Like the other poll, let's try to limit comparisons. That's why Sykes' poll accomplished nothing. You may be correct, but that's the culture CC leadership created. The CoC was made to expel people. That created tribes.

I can't speak for the mods. Maybe sometimes they picked up a flag, but we've also seen them make up rules like 'questioning motivations' to uphold bad decision. So, like bad calls in baseball (forgive my comparison), I think everything evens out. On the other hand, if you're a 'Good One', you have to do something egregious to get a violation (then it's usually followed with statement of pride. but that's me psychoanalysing again, best I don't get into trouble).

[BCSWowbagger]

Stop thinking in tribes. You don't believe in opposite things, you've succumbed to identity politics, Ben has not.

Our solutions to this proposed problem would be radically different. For instance, I think we'd see more evenhanded enforcement if most appeals were eliminated from the CoC system. Hosp... does not think that. That means we sure as heck don't believe the same thing, yet our answers to this poll would suggest that we do.

It's like asking people, "Do you think taxes are currently at the right level or the wrong level?" You'll get both the antitax people and the Occupy Wall Street people answering "wrong level," which is totally useless in setting policy going forward. It's a bad poll.

Given your critique of Brian's supposedly-biased poll, this much more egregious defect seems like something a good-faith interlocutor should be very concerned about.

[Boffo97]

The other poll suffers from a similar problem. What does "clarify" mean? It could mean make it stricter, it could mean make it weaker, it could mean neither.

[bhosp]

But if I vote "no, it has not been enforced fairly," my vote ends up lumped in with bhosp's vote, even though hosp (I strongly suspect) believes exactly the opposite thing.

When two people who believe opposite things end up casting the same vote in a poll, it's not a good poll.

Stop thinking in tribes. You don't believe in opposite things, you've succumbed to identity politics, Ben has not.

If the system is unfair for anyone person, then it's unfair for everyone.

Galaxy Brain: Humans are inherently tribal animals and can’t help but express themselves through group identities, but I believe that by practicing radical love and acceptance, we can (albeit slowly and painfully) bring everyone into the same tribe. ”L’Internationale sera le genre humain.”

[Nerdopolis Prime]

Of course.

Take a look how often the same people get banned and for what. You´ll see its fair treatment for all.

Or do you think people are after somebody?