[monty42]

I think we should stop living in a dream world and enjoy ourselves riding this wave until it hits shore

(which will happen sooner rather than later imo)

This sounds ominous. What do you mean with the things I emphasised?

There's a delusional mindset that's widespread in this community. The belief that if we hit buttons x, y, z, we'll be able to somehow restore this game to it's former glory.
Active membership is in constant decline for about a decade now and while I don't deny that a couple of those can be attributed to bad forum behaviour, that's not the main problem.

I dug up this post of mine from three years ago. It was in a thread about whether the game is dying or not.

Is STCCG dying?

Sadly I'd have to answer this question with a resounding "Yes!".

This is not going to happen today or even tomorrow, but in mid-term range there's no way around it.

You might wonder why I think this way, so here we go:

To me it came down to a simple question. Why do we love this game so much?
There are tons of other card games out there. Some of them play easier, more intuitive and are even more fun.
So why is it that we are clinging to this game, so much so that we kept it alive for almost a decade since Decipher went under?

I tell you why.
Because it's a game about Star Trek!

There's a reason why almost everybody in this community is in their 30's and/or 40's. We're the last Generation of Trekkies.
It's the same reason that this game isn't able to find any younger players. Simply because nobody cares about Star Trek these days.

(And please don't start arguing about J.J.'s new movies. They may carry the Star Trek name but have nothing to do with what Gene Roddenberry envisioned Star Trek to be.)

The sad truth is: Star Trek is dead!

And with us, the last generation of hardcore fans, growing up, devoting our time to work and family and the important things in life, this game is eventually going to die out as well.

All we can do is prolong the inevitable demise as best we can. And the only way that we are gonna do that is by standing together as a community!

Petty arguments and idiotic movements like "hats vs badges" are only gonna accelerate the demise of this game because in the end, whoever wins is going to be a much smaller group than before.

I think my point about the "hats vs badges" argument from back then applies somewhat well to todays "CoC vs non-CoC" situation.
I'm never gonna discourage anybody from trying to find new players but I am completely opposed to Nerdo's way of destroying what we have in order to build something new that may or may not work. Because if it doesn't work, there's no going back.
Banning some people will feel good to some but it won't be the magic bullet "those guys" think it will be.

[bhosp]

[bhosp]

Another thread descended into fuckery by the 2E lot

Don't make me set Airium on you bunch. After today's episode, you really don't want to fuck with her.

54256420_10156489028719794_8935963176277639168_n.jpg

Now that’s what I call a Rogue Borg Mercenary!

[SudenKapala]

I think we should stop living in a dream world and enjoy ourselves riding this wave until it hits shore

(which will happen sooner rather than later imo)

This sounds ominous. What do you mean with the things I emphasised?

There's a delusional mindset that's widespread in this community. The belief that if we hit buttons x, y, z, we'll be able to somehow restore this game to it's former glory.
Active membership is in constant decline for about a decade now and while I don't deny that a couple of those can be attributed to bad forum behaviour, that's not the main problem.

I dug up this post of mine from three years ago. It was in a thread about whether the game is dying or not.

"
Is STCCG dying?

Sadly I'd have to answer this question with a resounding "Yes!".

This is not going to happen today or even tomorrow, but in mid-term range there's no way around it.

You might wonder why I think this way, so here we go:

To me it came down to a simple question. Why do we love this game so much?
There are tons of other card games out there. Some of them play easier, more intuitive and are even more fun.
So why is it that we are clinging to this game, so much so that we kept it alive for almost a decade since Decipher went under?

I tell you why.
Because it's a game about Star Trek!

There's a reason why almost everybody in this community is in their 30's and/or 40's. We're the last Generation of Trekkies.
It's the same reason that this game isn't able to find any younger players. Simply because nobody cares about Star Trek these days.

(And please don't start arguing about J.J.'s new movies. They may carry the Star Trek name but have nothing to do with what Gene Roddenberry envisioned Star Trek to be.)

The sad truth is: Star Trek is dead!

And

with us, the last generation of hardcore fans, growing up, devoting our time to work and family and the important things in life, this game is eventually going to die out as well.

All we can do is prolong the inevitable demise as best we can. And the only way that we are gonna do that is by standing together as a community!

Petty arguments and idiotic movements like "hats vs badges" are only gonna accelerate the demise of this game because in the end, whoever wins is going to be a much smaller group than before.
"

I think my point about the "hats vs badges" argument from back then applies somewhat well to todays "CoC vs non-CoC" situation.
I'm never gonna discourage anybody from trying to find new players but I am completely opposed to Nerdo's way of destroying what we have in order to build something new that may or may not work. Because if it doesn't work, there's no going back.
Banning some people will feel good to some but it won't be the magic bullet "those guys" think it will be.

Thanks for your elaborate answer. That's a compelling theory -- and, being a pessimist realist, I believe you may well be right.

However, is that why we play a game and imerse ourselves in it -- to make sure it stands for generations to come? Not me. I play it for fun, to escape, to enjoy myself alone and with friends. Now.

So if, when I die, my cards get thrown out on the trash heap, that's OK. (It pains me to think of it, THB, of course; but it's logical.) And to my view, we are here for ourselves. If people can't get their/other kids to play, that's... well, annoying, for sure. Indeed, an idea that the game will last another 30 years seems far-fetched. But that doesn't mean that I will stop playing during the next 10 or 20 years.
Most people don't give up on their life, either, knowing it's finite. (Wow... I think I never used that word before.)
Your plausible theory is, IMO, no reason whatsoever (and I'm not saying here that you said so, Monty) to throw in a towel. On the other hand, it's always good to be pessimistic realistic; it makes for less emotional surprises (and perhaps that's what you were saying?).

[Latok]

Active membership is in constant decline for about a decade now and while I don't deny that a couple of those can be attributed to bad forum behaviour, that's not the main problem.

This reminds me of something bhosp posted recently,

But “I stopped running events because of the tone of the forums” is not something I’m sure I believe. I don’t think anyone actually does that who isn’t at least on the fence about quitting anyway.

So it's not the main problem or cause, which no one has every really proposed but if it's a contributing factor how is that not a bad thing? Especially since it should be easily changed.

[Latok]

I think my point about the "hats vs badges" argument from back then applies somewhat well to todays "CoC vs non-CoC" situation.

So since it was indicated that the majority of the community, assuming the people that voted are representative of the whole, are pro-CoC and you think having a CoC vs non-CoC situation is damaging to the community, why have you been actively trolling/contributing to that situation?

[bhosp]

I think my point about the "hats vs badges" argument from back then applies somewhat well to todays "CoC vs non-CoC" situation.

So since it was indicated that the majority of the community, assuming the people that voted are representative of the whole, are pro-CoC and you think having a CoC vs non-CoC situation is damaging to the community, why have you been actively trolling/contributing to that situation?

Are you familiar with the concept of a “revolutionary vanguard”?

[SudenKapala]

Active membership is in constant decline for about a decade now and while I don't deny that a couple of those can be attributed to bad forum behaviour, that's not the main problem.

This reminds me of something bhosp posted recently,

But “I stopped running events because of the tone of the forums” is not something I’m sure I believe. I don’t think anyone actually does that who isn’t at least on the fence about quitting anyway.

So it's not the main problem or cause, which no one has every really proposed but if it's a contributing factor how is that not a bad thing?

Agreed. Speaking for myself, it was a bit detrimental(?) seeing some of the goings-on here, but on the other hand, I persist to see what I can gain here, in terms of inspiration. No doubt there are people to either side of me -- those who are scared away, and people who care a lot less about the atmosphere. But... I still agree. Bad thing. Be friends again, or at least don't bash clubs or open bodily harm cans.

Especially since it should be easily changed.

Well, I was told earlier in this topic -- justly -- that it's obviously easier said than done. But... perhaps see it as a challenge.

The sad truth is: Star Trek is dead!
And with us, the last generation of hardcore fans, growing up, devoting our time to work and family and the important things in life, this game is eventually going to die out as well. All we can do is prolong the inevitable demise as best we can.

Earlier, I said I tend to agree. Yet on the other hand -- let's also see where Discovery and the Picard series -- in the LONG ruin (haha, true typo! Edit: "run") -- might take us. And if the reboot films draw new people in, that's great, too -- it's a modern take on Trek, possibly appealing to younger people and fringe enthusiasts. Like, perhaps, the new Disney Star Wars films are, for that franchise. Did I enjoy watching them? Yeah...ish. Do I agree with the core content? Not really. But, can it perhaps be a bridge into new generations? Maybe. We'll see in a few years. Or a decade.

Because... Look at Wars. In the early 90s, it was in deep hybernation, if not dead. Myself, I was quite into it. I read the Zahn books -- I truly loved them as novels, but I didn't really find them to be 'my' SW (like unto the Abrahms movies now). However, they sold; generated interest. And opened the market for the Remastered trilogy. And then, it snowballed into the Special Editions and the prequels. It was a graduate process -- but here we are. Sequels...ish. But in any case, Wars is still a culture icon, too.

My friends (some are 10 years younger than I) say Trek has certainly not died yet. It can happen. It might not. Let's not try and be clairvoyant -- let's just play Trek CCG.

And the only way that we are gonna do that is by standing together as a community!

[monty42]

Earlier, I said I tend to agree. Yet on the other hand -- let's also see where Discovery and the Picard series -- in the LONG ruin (haha, true typo! Edit: "run") -- might take us. And if the reboot films draw new people in, that's great, too -- it's a modern take on Trek, possibly appealing to younger people and fringe enthusiasts. Like, perhaps, the new Disney Star Wars films are, for that franchise. Did I enjoy watching them? Yeah...ish. Do I agree with the core content? Not really. But, can it perhaps be a bridge into new generations? Maybe. We'll see in a few years. Or a decade.

It is highly unlikely that any Sci-Fi franchise nowadays will create any type of the following that Trek and Wars have created throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s.
Back in the day when I grew to love Trek, TV didn't have anything else to offer in regards of good Sci-Fi.
It is a blessing and a curse that today geek has become mainstream. There is so so much out there that TV and streaming services have to offer that a show has to be an exceptional stand out like GoT to mobilize the masses.

But also even if I'm dead wrong and Discovery or the Picard show grow to be the greatest thing out there, it won't do this community a lot of good because we can't dip into those anyway.

[bhosp]

When I finally conjure 3rd Edition into existence, it’s gonna have a ton of Discovery content.

[monty42]

When I finally conjure 3rd Edition into existence, it’s gonna have a ton of Discovery content.

Oh dammit, now Corbett has to kill a hobo...

[bhosp]

When I finally conjure 3rd Edition into existence, it’s gonna have a ton of Discovery content.

Oh dammit, now Corbett has to kill a hobo...

He’s aware that the Contingency Plan for if Ross drives 2E into the ground will go ahead with or without his approval.

[SudenKapala]

But also even if I'm dead wrong and Discovery or the Picard show grow to be the greatest thing out there, it won't do this community a lot of good because we can't dip into those anyway.

Not-so-good, but good, point.

On the other hand -- for me, being inspired by new Trek leads to tinkering with / trying out old Trek. I'm never was a fan of old stuff -- series nor the TOS-era CCG-cards. TNG-era Trek inspired me to love the franchise, and I felt the need to have seen it all. I sentenced myself to watching TOS and TAS (and survived). Now, I'm building a TOS deck.

But I do see your point, too. Empires must expand or die?

[SudenKapala]

Yes! Let's go and branch off a 3rd Edition! This will help consolidating-- help us consolidate-- help, consolidating--

Nope.

[SudenKapala]

Still, at the risk of returning to topic (the Celestial Prophets forbid )...

I'm interested in more answers to this question:

What are your goals for the hobby and the community?