A place for complete-off-topic conversations that have nothing to do with Star Trek. The rules still apply here, stay civil.
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First Edition Art Manager
By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
 -  
#470993
Fritzinger wrote:The pitch meeting guy on YouTube does this for all of my favourite movies. But I somehow enjoy them more because of it.
Outstanding recommendation. Thanks!
Johnny
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By Marquetry
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#471012
SudenKapala wrote:Arrival was ruined a bit for me, in a wholly different way. It's an awesome, AWESOME cerebral SF epic. Sadly, the ending, while positive enough, upon reflection implies a future for the main character that I would not wish upon myself. But YMMV. And still -- did I mention its AWESOMENESS?
Armus wrote:Big Bang Theory totally ruined Raiders of the Lost Ark for me. :?
How?
Boffo97 wrote:True enough, like how neither free will or any dramatic tension that our heroes might lose can exist in the "Bill & Ted" movies.

If you can make stuff happen by just remembering to time travel back later and set it up, then time is like a highway that's already been built from one point to another. You can travel back and forth on it if you have a time machine, but you can't change the highway.
Not sure whether B&T films took themselves seriously enough to warrant such analysis... Not whether the heroes would be bothered by such effects. They might just play an air guitar riff and carry on.
For Raiders - the short version is that: Indiana Jones doesn't have an impact on the outcome. Whether or not he gets involved, the Nazis would find the Ark and get melted.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#471092
Marquetry wrote:
SudenKapala wrote:Arrival was ruined a bit for me, in a wholly different way. It's an awesome, AWESOME cerebral SF epic. Sadly, the ending, while positive enough, upon reflection implies a future for the main character that I would not wish upon myself. But YMMV. And still -- did I mention its AWESOMENESS?
Armus wrote:Big Bang Theory totally ruined Raiders of the Lost Ark for me. :?
How?
Boffo97 wrote:True enough, like how neither free will or any dramatic tension that our heroes might lose can exist in the "Bill & Ted" movies.

If you can make stuff happen by just remembering to time travel back later and set it up, then time is like a highway that's already been built from one point to another. You can travel back and forth on it if you have a time machine, but you can't change the highway.
Not sure whether B&T films took themselves seriously enough to warrant such analysis... Not whether the heroes would be bothered by such effects. They might just play an air guitar riff and carry on.
For Raiders - the short version is that: Indiana Jones doesn't have an impact on the outcome. Whether or not he gets involved, the Nazis would find the Ark and get melted.
Ah, yeah. Thanks. I now remember having heard of the theory -- must've been in TBBT, since I've seen most of that -- but forgot about that.
For me, it doesn't ruin the film. It would totally fit with the character to have such bad luck.
And wait-- Indy finds the Well Of Souls because he interprets the second side of the medallion correctly. I'm not sure whether the Nazis had it (again) at that time, so whether they'd have found it themselves eventually, or not...? Perhaps he did help them to their doom? Perhaps one day I'll watch it again. It has a submarine, after all.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#471152
On the topic of Star Wars, specifically "A New Hope"...

Other than "Then there wouldn't be a movie", why didn't the Rebel ship get the Death Star plans and then just broadcast them to the entire galaxy? The Yavin IV base, along with everyone else, gets the plans and the Empire still has no idea where they are. Luke, Obi Wan, Han and Chewie basically don't even get into the story. Leia's lost, but she probably expected as much anyway.

And of course, our hero lives. Our hero... Jektono Porkins.

You might argue that the equivalent of subspace radio doesn't exist in Star Wars, except we do see one instance in The Empire Strikes Back of Vader talking to the Emperor over what must be FTL communications. Not to mention, Boba Fett had to tell Darth Vader that the Millenium Falcon was going to Bespin somehow.
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#471218
Boffo97 wrote:On the topic of Star Wars, specifically "A New Hope"...

Other than "Then there wouldn't be a movie", why didn't the Rebel ship get the Death Star plans and then just broadcast them to the entire galaxy? The Yavin IV base, along with everyone else, gets the plans and the Empire still has no idea where they are. Luke, Obi Wan, Han and Chewie basically don't even get into the story. Leia's lost, but she probably expected as much anyway.

And of course, our hero lives. Our hero... Jektono Porkins.

You might argue that the equivalent of subspace radio doesn't exist in Star Wars, except we do see one instance in The Empire Strikes Back of Vader talking to the Emperor over what must be FTL communications. Not to mention, Boba Fett had to tell Darth Vader that the Millenium Falcon was going to Bespin somehow.
Wasn't it because the plans that the rebels got pointed out a big flaw that was intentionally built in to the Death Star. So presumably The Empire doesn't know about the flaw and broadcasting the plans to literally everybody would give them that knowledge and allow them to fix it.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#471219
Latok wrote:Wasn't it because the plans that the rebels got pointed out a big flaw that was intentionally built in to the Death Star. So presumably The Empire doesn't know about the flaw and broadcasting the plans to literally everybody would give them that knowledge and allow them to fix it.
But the stolen plans were stolen from The Empire, who apparently hadn't noticed a deliberate design flaw before.

The plans being stolen wouldn't alert The Empire that there was definitely a flaw in the design.

As an aside, I like Rogue One, but it really made things make less sense by establishing that it was a deliberate design flaw. I for one had no problem accepting that the Empire knew about the exhaust port, that there wasn't really a good way around it (planet killing lasers generate LOTS of heat) and didn't worry about it as a realistic target. At least not until that random guy informed Tarkin that they analyzed the Rebels' attack and that there was a danger.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#471235
Boffo97 wrote:At least not until that random guy informed Tarkin that they analyzed the Rebels' attack and that there was a danger.
Chief Bast is not some random guy! I always liked his card.

(I like the discussion. Perhaps the Empire wasn't aware yet that for certain, and/or where, the flaw existed. Those must be some big plans to analyze. The Force was with the Rebels, maybe that's how they got it done so fast.)
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Second Edition Rules Master
By Latok
 - Second Edition Rules Master
 -  
1E Australian Continental Champion 2019
2E Australian Continental Runner-Up 2019
#471270
Boffo97 wrote:
Latok wrote:Wasn't it because the plans that the rebels got pointed out a big flaw that was intentionally built in to the Death Star. So presumably The Empire doesn't know about the flaw and broadcasting the plans to literally everybody would give them that knowledge and allow them to fix it.
But the stolen plans were stolen from The Empire, who apparently hadn't noticed a deliberate design flaw before.

The plans being stolen wouldn't alert The Empire that there was definitely a flaw in the design.

As an aside, I like Rogue One, but it really made things make less sense by establishing that it was a deliberate design flaw. I for one had no problem accepting that the Empire knew about the exhaust port, that there wasn't really a good way around it (planet killing lasers generate LOTS of heat) and didn't worry about it as a realistic target. At least not until that random guy informed Tarkin that they analyzed the Rebels' attack and that there was a danger.
All irrelevant points, the important part of the plans was the fact they 'found' a flaw, whether it was intentionally built on or they found it be studying them meticulously doesn't matter. Just broadcasting the basic plans, as in what The Empire has, achieves nothing. You're relying on someone on the receiving end to also find the extremely specific flaw, what are the odds of that? Sure in a movie 100% but since we're actually thinking about it, it's practically 0% that two separate cells of a terrorist organisation is going to be able to find the same needle ina haystack that The Empire couldn't.

The important information that would need to be transmitted is the very specific flaw and how to exploit it, which is information The Empire doesn't have. That's why your idea doesn't work. Also even if it was an 'unfix-able' flaw, there'd clearly be ways to work around it, like don't have a trench where your defenses don't work running all the way up to it.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#471302
Latok wrote:All irrelevant points, the important part of the plans was the fact they 'found' a flaw, whether it was intentionally built on or they found it be studying them meticulously doesn't matter. Just broadcasting the basic plans, as in what The Empire has, achieves nothing. You're relying on someone on the receiving end to also find the extremely specific flaw, what are the odds of that? Sure in a movie 100% but since we're actually thinking about it, it's practically 0% that two separate cells of a terrorist organisation is going to be able to find the same needle ina haystack that The Empire couldn't.

The important information that would need to be transmitted is the very specific flaw and how to exploit it, which is information The Empire doesn't have. That's why your idea doesn't work. Also even if it was an 'unfix-able' flaw, there'd clearly be ways to work around it, like don't have a trench where your defenses don't work running all the way up to it.
OK, now you've lost me because the only thing they stole was what the Empire already had: the basic plans. And, as said, the Empire knew enough about the flaw already to conclude there was a danger just by "analyzing" the Rebels' attack. So it makes sense that the vulnerability isn't that hard to find... IF you have the plans.

And the defenses of the trench worked just fine until they were turned off so Vader could (in a bit of hubris) deal with the fighters personally. The only reasons the attack even came close to working were that Luke was strong in The Force, and Han did his last second rescue (even though there should have been tons of TIE Fighters left to stop him).
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#471321
Boffo97 wrote:(even though there should have been tons of TIE Fighters left to stop him).
Of course not. Only good TIE pilots in Premiere were Mauler Mithel and Backstabber, and they were in the trench with Vader. Han and Chewie turned a lot of destiny between them; and the Falcon was packed with green (equipment/weapons) and red (events/interrupts), so they blew half of the Imps to smithereens straight away. Next, Da Dark Side had a lot of batle damage to answer for, and attrition accounted for the rest of the eyeballs (TIEs).
Now if them baddies would have had squints (Interceptors) and Baron Fell in reserve...

(Never played the game -- well, 3 learnong games -- but I know a bit of the cards. Did I make it sound bad-ass?)
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#471328
I was going by the idea that if we trust Wookieepedia, there's 1.2 million crew aboard the Death Star.

It would stand to reason that they would have a LOT more TIE Fighters than we saw in even the Special Editions. By quite a bit.

And yes, Wookieepedia has been cited... thus even reading this thread now makes you a nerd, everyone.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#471347
But so many TIEs can only satisfy so much attrition. And since that big blue (ISD (Star Destroyer)) is on table, too, Dark Side didn't have so much left in his Force pile.

And while we're at it -- everybody knows that STCCG is a main character-heavy game. Light Side got the big guns outside that trench -- Dark Side has only generic TIEs and pilots with power "*". "*"!!! Is what I'm saying. They stand not a chance in eternity against the Solo and the Chew. Whereas IN the trench, Luke must've turned over so many goodies for his destiny draws, to win and to evader Vader. (Sic; Evader is a card, having Vader escape a battle himself, or some such.)
Boffo97 wrote:... thus even reading this thread now makes you a nerd, everyone.
That's it, guys. I'm done here at this site. This is all I came to do -- earn my nerdhood. So glad it finally happened. Thanks.

Still a bit confused now, though, that while Mem Alpha links abound, and 2001, Dune, Matrix and things like The Expanse were mentioned in recent threads, these things did not make us earn our nerdness slightly earlier.

Huh. And I thought only playing this game-- nah. Must've been mistaken.
 
By HoodieDM
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#472061
Boffo97 wrote:
Latok wrote:Wasn't it because the plans that the rebels got pointed out a big flaw that was intentionally built in to the Death Star. So presumably The Empire doesn't know about the flaw and broadcasting the plans to literally everybody would give them that knowledge and allow them to fix it.
But the stolen plans were stolen from The Empire, who apparently hadn't noticed a deliberate design flaw before.

The plans being stolen wouldn't alert The Empire that there was definitely a flaw in the design.

As an aside, I like Rogue One, but it really made things make less sense by establishing that it was a deliberate design flaw. I for one had no problem accepting that the Empire knew about the exhaust port, that there wasn't really a good way around it (planet killing lasers generate LOTS of heat) and didn't worry about it as a realistic target. At least not until that random guy informed Tarkin that they analyzed the Rebels' attack and that there was a danger.
That's what Rogue One established that there was a design flaw put in by Erso that they wouldn't know about. And the idea that the shot quoted by Han, "That was one in a million kid." was pretty good odds for the Empire. They just didn't expect Luke Skywalker to actually MAKE that shot. That's like winning the lottery. And again, Tarkin's overconfidence was his own downfall. Even helped more throughout Rogue One. Again, why I think Rogue One is wonderful. It's almost makes R1 + ANH one long film if you think about it.

Anyways, my film ruined by thinking about it: Inception

~D
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