For posting 1E deck designs for feedback from other players and members of the community.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#510740
Ensign Q wrote:if you run any targets, that is
Weren't you just complaining about card draws?

When I Kevin your Traveler, your Kivas, your Surprise Party, etc. You're definitely going to be hurting for card draws.

Duck Blind is immune. One of the reasons it's worth the seed slot IMO, even if you have to dig for Anthropology.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#510744
Well I guess my post about why I am leaving the tournament got deleted without so much as a how do you do. I guess this one will too.
Last edited by Professor Scott on Sat May 02, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#510747
Armus wrote:
Ensign Q wrote:if you run any targets, that is
Weren't you just complaining about card draws?

When I Kevin your Traveler, your Kivas, your Surprise Party, etc. You're definitely going to be hurting for card draws.

Duck Blind is immune. One of the reasons it's worth the seed slot IMO, even if you have to dig for Anthropology.
duck blind might be usuable for non-fed affiliation. fed gets just murdered. it might draw 3-5 cards in an average game.

but true, kevin can get rid of traveler.

but how many do you want to to stock to reliably draw them. if you end up with 5 in your hand the opp is +5 cards as well.
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European OP Coordinator
 - European OP Coordinator
 -  
#510787
First test impressions: you should concider to add all the [Ref] cards and Tribunal of Q to the card pool. I know, 1E design wants to get rid of them (I still don't understand why), but let me give you some examples we came across while testing:

The limit for TNG cards also limits dilemmas in a quite extensive way. There is no Dead End, so Access Archives is a very safe mission to do for lots of points. Even if your opponent seeds a lot of dilemmas underneath, with only TNG dilemmas most nasty combos are gone and they are simply not soooooo good...

You also don't have to fear Lack of Preparation, so red-shirting is a very good option. Yes, you can face Thine Own Self, but your opponent has to have multiple copies in his deck and after the first encounter you won't do red-shirting again. Villagers with Torches, my first [Ref] example, would do the trick here.

The Klingon Armada is a danger without any doubt. They are even with Obelisk of Masaka, but with two personnel required on each ship it takes them more time to be destructive. Without [Ref] cards a [Kli] player can download one ❖ I.K.C. K'Vort every turn with Spacedoor and play one or two personnel for free, so one staffed ship ready to attack each turn. If [Ref] is allowed, with Panel Overload you can buy yourself some time...

Last but not least, the good old Kevin/Amanda/Q2 menace. There is no danger in using any of them, because Oof! is not existing. Yes, at least Duck Blind is immune, but each and every other Event or Interrupt is in a real danger, unless you fill your deck with lots of Q2.

Even when tested in Open, you desperately need [Ref] even more - no by rules included Fair Play, Intermix Ratio or The Big Picture.

So I would strongly suggest to think about that change for the rules setting...
Last edited by Clerasil ToB on Sat May 02, 2020 1:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#510805
at first i was thinking the same, but actually i like that we dont have refcards.
After armus mentioning the power of interrupts i went back and crawled through all cards again.
there is actually an interesting amount of interactions with many counterplays.
running tng with taxed kaq2 would make it even worse I feel.

As for redshirting, there are a couple solutions.
One I reveal:
Seed Armus planet, downloading all consume + seed another one.

Now you have a suspend play Villagers (Armus - Sticky Situation) that even works on Space (Armus: Energy Field). Yeah its a oneshot, but the usual option, is to just run some walls as entry ticket.
Scientific Method seems quite effective. And yeah, Thine, which you might want against unwary duckblind players anyway.
Preventing redshirting comes with a higher cost, as it should be. It all balances around less draws. Making a 2:1 cardplay means something in this format.
same reason armada is not as crazy. flipping spacedoor close and open costs you 2 cards for a ship, if Obelisk is in play, Im curious where you find the ressources to staff them now.

Access archive is op, we know that. But its way harder to get all classifications in this format and some might die to Armus or Nausicaans.
The potential of this format is crazy and the amount of creativity you can put into deckbuilding is huge. Its almost a different game. One thats also still a cardgame.
Last edited by Ensign Q on Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#510807
Clerasil ToB wrote:
The Klingon Armada is a danger without any doubt. They are even with Obelisk of Masaka, but with two personnel required on each ship it takes them more time to be destructive. Without [Ref] cards a [Kli] player can download one ❖ I.K.C. K'Vort every turn with Spacedoor and play one or two personnel for free, so one staffed ship ready to attack each turn. If [Ref] is allowed, with Panel Overload you can buy yourself some time...
Strategic Base on Starbase 247 and another outpost at Evade Borg Vessel. How many K'vorts do you have?

And that means you're expending your card play for that and need to discard a card every turn to keep re-opening your spacedoor.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be feasible, I'm just saying that it's more expensive than it might seem. Initially I'd thought Romulan Science Vessel swarm, but without a way of downloading them, it doesn't seem like it's worth it (though that would dodge Obelisk).


By all means, try it, maybe it'll win some games, but I imagine it won't outpace some decks, and if someone is prepared as above you might be kinda screwed, that it'll take too long to get the necessary weapons to take out the one outpost and are at a bit of a loss for one at Evade Borg Vessel.

And finally, it'd be a real shame if someone were to auto-destruct a ship at the location of your armada of k'vorts with a Battle bridge themselves :D
Last edited by princedetenebres on Sat May 02, 2020 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#510816
does armada mean blowing up outpost or why is this a recurring argument. getting imprisoned by the opponent on your outpost without any chance to ever leave it seems enough.

you can also always build an outpost at paxan.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#510826
Ensign Q wrote:does armada mean blowing up outpost or why is this a recurring argument. getting imprisoned by the opponent on your outpost without any chance to ever leave it seems enough.

you can also always build an outpost at paxan.

What prevents you from leaving? If I can solve Evade Borg Vessel, and you can't hurt my outpost, I can just send a ship & crew to attempt nearby planet missions and I'm fine, odds are you'll have spent a lot of resources (draws/plays) getting those ships out that aren't scoring you (m)any points to build said armada. And if I have another mission, say a dual-icon one with strategic base and starbase 247, well now I have 2 safe spots that I can solve missions at and I can redshirt my way through somewhere else and the armada, while perhaps something to consider, isn't preventing me from attempting and solving missions and winning the game, while all the effort made by my opponent is for very little, having failed to block me from reporting new people/ships and making mission attempts. Hell, with mission specialists at resolve local tensions & evade borg vessel, there's a 2-mission win right there, don't even need to leave my bases.

Particularly if one of my planet missions is adjacent to one of the outposts, then I can go drop a crew off and return and dock -- you'd be hard pressed to hurt a docked ship at Evade borg vessel and one docked at 247 with spacedock you'd need to direct hit it after it gets the extra 20 shields to have any effect.


Again, I don't say that it is a terrible plan/deck to try such an armada, but I'm just outlining a potential counter to it. Every deck/idea has a counter, of course, I just resist the idea to make sweeping definitive declarations about armada, or anything else dominating the format until we've actual seen the playtest.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#510827
so what youre saying is, you leave evade borg and dock at your outpost at planet, so your ships are somewhat protected while you attempt.
here my lack of experience against battledecks shows, because i was thinking your ships are exposed while solving.
your away team can be murdered though.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#510829
Ensign Q wrote:so what youre saying is, you leave evade borg and dock at your outpost at planet, so your ships are somewhat protected while you attempt.
here my lack of experience against battledecks shows, because i was thinking your ships are exposed while solving.
your away team can be murdered though.
Away Team slaughter can take some real effort in a TNG only environment. Only Klingons, Borg, and Dominion are REALLY good at it. There's no Dominion, and the Borg and Klingons don't have the key cards they need.

So your ships are exposed while attempting a space mission, but Evade Borg Vessel mitigates that quite a bit, and a Spacedock on your outpost means that any threats are going to have to take you out in one shot on your opponent's turn.

Is it still possible? Yes. But you can deck build several layers of defense to mitigate the risk.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#510838
interestingly, the base game had a window to allow armada strategies in The Sheliak.
Even the nerfed version could break open turtle decks, unless youre sloppy with mission seeding.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#510840
So it appears my original post did not in fact get deleted, it never actually posted.

As I tried to mention earlier, I have decided to leave this tournament due to overly aggressive retaliation on the part of a poster on this thread. I am apparently in the minority thinking that this tournament was going to be just for fun to determine the viability of this environment. As a result I shared some details about an opponent's deck and was crucified privately via Discord and Skype messages until I rescinded my comments. Another poster had even quoted my comment and I was forced to contact him or her directly, and ask that they edit out that portion, which they thankful obliged. Apparently, the first poster I referred to considers all tournaments to be as cutthroat as any other. Since I have intimate knowledge of his or her deck, and since it was made clear to me that this deck is the deck they plan to play a full month from now, as a matter of good sportsmanship I must leave the tournament to avoid any unfair advantage. It's a real shame, as I was looking forward to contributing to this discussion and this environment. Maybe if the tournament is successful, it will become a thing. Maybe then I can rejoin the community regarding this environment.

If anyone wishes to try to discourage me from leaving, or rather at this point encourage me to re-enter, I will listen to reason. The party involved knows whom they are, and at present we are not on speaking terms; that is also unlikely to change do the the vicious name calling outside this website. That too is up for reconsideration, but not with out a formal private apology.

Yours truly....
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#510846
I dont mind you staying in the tournament. playtesting and revealing the deck to one opponent is much different from posting half the decklist in an open forum.

It was your choice doing so and as I said, just because you play only for achievments, doesnt mean everybody does. I put a lot of time and thought into my decks. Funnily enough youre the one being afraid of metaadjustments usually..
You abused my trust, so if anyone has to apologize, its you...
obviously you rather chose to play the victim card, which only shows me my reaction/evaluation was truly right and you dont feel you made a mistake in the first place.
That said, this crap costs me another 20hrs to find an alternative deck, the damage is done.
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#510850
Ensign Q wrote:I don't mind you staying in the tournament. play-testing and revealing the deck to one opponent is much different from posting half the deck-list in an open forum.

It was your choice doing so and as I said, just because you play only for achievements, doesn't mean everybody does. I put a lot of time and thought into my decks. Funnily enough you're the one being afraid of meta adjustments usually..
So if anyone has to apologize, its you...
obviously you rather chose to play the victim card, which only shows me my evaluation was truly right and you don't feel you made a mistake in the first place.
That said, this crap costs me another 20 hrs to find an alternative deck, the damage is done.
Way to remove any doubt who was the whiner about their deck info I posted. Never mind that I called what you did brilliant, and insulting my intelligence and referring to me as an anal sphincter in private shows why you are not respected here or in the Dojo. I do not play just for achievements. I do try to collect them if they fit my deck plans and if swapping 2 cards to collect a missing achievement is so wrong, that's my problem not yours. Clearly, me taking 4 days to craft my deck compared to you cranking out 3 decks in 24 hours shows not only how little time you actually spend, and also how much more efficient you are than I am, but don't ever insult me by saying I take this game or these tournaments lightly. You sir, are a pompous buffoon, unworthy of the designation of Q. I made a mistake and corrected it by editing my posts. I apparently also made a mistake by calling you friend. I fixed my issues, good luck fixing yours.

On that note, I helped you out by correcting all your spelling mistakes in bold

I give you a C+ on this assignment.
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