For posting 1E deck designs for feedback from other players and members of the community.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#516032
Summary: My Battle Borg deck performed... honestly, rather poorly... in April's Dojo.

Is this because Battle Borg aren't as good as some believe? Is it because I am a decent deckbuilder but a bad player? Or was it just a bunch of flukes that repeatedly took down a very strong deck?
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By Spectre9
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#516044
Looks like you punted game 1 to an outside the box strategy and you lost game 2 to the mirror match.

I don't think you're a bad player at all.

I feel like Borg with Population 9 Billion - All Borg or Harness Particle 010 can easily get the full win once they've established a bit of control.

The fact you didn't get full wins by concession should also be brought into the discussion here. Did you hit the time limit? Were your opponents just stubborn? Surely once you have full control of the game you should get the FW and I think this comes back to my previous paragraph about not having the right points strategy for a big end game.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#517774
This is the proof that battle Borg is not overpowered and still requires a good player to pilot it correctly, in game.

There are a lot of razors edge moments in games with it and if it was overpowered that wouldn't be the case.

Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#517787
Hoss-Drone wrote:This is the proof that battle Borg is not overpowered and still requires a good player to pilot it correctly, in game.

There are a lot of razors edge moments in games with it and if it was overpowered that wouldn't be the case.

Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
First off... I'd be very surprised if anyone claimed that you and Kris were NOT good at this game. In fact, I'd have a lot of questions for the person making the claim.

That said, it's the second part that concerns me more in this conversation: the "come prepared" part. I definitely agree that meta analysis and preparation are key elements in being successful, no question there. The issue is when you have one deck type that is so dominant that it has to be prepared for, there's only so many options for what "prepared" looks like. That leaves all of the other options out in the cold, and I'd argue that situation is something that Design/ Errata/ etc. SHOULD address.

Now if you want to make the argument that battle Borg does NOT drive such a rock/ paper/scissors meta, then ok. That's a fair debate to be had. But if it DOES, and you still think no action should be taken, then I'm inclined to respectfully disagree. Limited meta leads to a stale game leads to decreased interest and participation. That should be prevented.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#517815
Armus wrote:
Hoss-Drone wrote:This is the proof that battle Borg is not overpowered and still requires a good player to pilot it correctly, in game.

There are a lot of razors edge moments in games with it and if it was overpowered that wouldn't be the case.

Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
First off... I'd be very surprised if anyone claimed that you and Kris were NOT good at this game. In fact, I'd have a lot of questions for the person making the claim.

That said, it's the second part that concerns me more in this conversation: the "come prepared" part. I definitely agree that meta analysis and preparation are key elements in being successful, no question there. The issue is when you have one deck type that is so dominant that it has to be prepared for, there's only so many options for what "prepared" looks like. That leaves all of the other options out in the cold, and I'd argue that situation is something that Design/ Errata/ etc. SHOULD address.

Now if you want to make the argument that battle Borg does NOT drive such a rock/ paper/scissors meta, then ok. That's a fair debate to be had. But if it DOES, and you still think no action should be taken, then I'm inclined to respectfully disagree. Limited meta leads to a stale game leads to decreased interest and participation. That should be prevented.

The come prepared was in reference to how we game plan and construct the Borg deck....not against it. That's a different discussion..... One I'm not gonna have bc I'm not giving away the farm which is just more evidence in my mind it's not the deck.

The 1e meta is definitely not in a rock, paper, scissors state. I've won recently with a variety of decks. Proof that it's not decks but players driving the game right now. My squinty eyes right now are more pointed at general use cards than at decks. Cards like smoke bomb's first function against opponents personnel, access archives, and up until the errata - the final frontier are a much bigger concern to me. If I had my druthers, smoke bomb's first function would get a fast errata to not affect opponent's personnel.
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European OP Coordinator
 - European OP Coordinator
 -  
#517853
Hoss-Drone wrote:
Armus wrote:
Hoss-Drone wrote:This is the proof that battle Borg is not overpowered and still requires a good player to pilot it correctly, in game.

There are a lot of razors edge moments in games with it and if it was overpowered that wouldn't be the case.

Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
First off... I'd be very surprised if anyone claimed that you and Kris were NOT good at this game. In fact, I'd have a lot of questions for the person making the claim.

That said, it's the second part that concerns me more in this conversation: the "come prepared" part. I definitely agree that meta analysis and preparation are key elements in being successful, no question there. The issue is when you have one deck type that is so dominant that it has to be prepared for, there's only so many options for what "prepared" looks like. That leaves all of the other options out in the cold, and I'd argue that situation is something that Design/ Errata/ etc. SHOULD address.

Now if you want to make the argument that battle Borg does NOT drive such a rock/ paper/scissors meta, then ok. That's a fair debate to be had. But if it DOES, and you still think no action should be taken, then I'm inclined to respectfully disagree. Limited meta leads to a stale game leads to decreased interest and participation. That should be prevented.

The come prepared was in reference to how we game plan and construct the Borg deck....not against it. That's a different discussion..... One I'm not gonna have bc I'm not giving away the farm which is just more evidence in my mind it's not the deck.

The 1e meta is definitely not in a rock, paper, scissors state. I've won recently with a variety of decks. Proof that it's not decks but players driving the game right now. My squinty eyes right now are more pointed at general use cards than at decks. Cards like smoke bomb's first function against opponents personnel, access archives, and up until the errata - the final frontier are a much bigger concern to me. If I had my druthers, smoke bomb's first function would get a fast errata to not affect opponent's personnel.
You mean the second function (stopping), or is your major concern the hide from battle (first function)?
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#517876
Whoops, misspoke - I mean the second function. The card should not be able to stop an opponent away team. We've been down this road with rogue Borg, etc. Being able to *ping* an opponents personnel at interrupt speedhas always ended up getting abused. This is the prime example of "the next thing". More than that, the intention of the card in my estimation - is to protect your personnel - not screw with the opponent......like a smoke bomb.....
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 - Delta Quadrant
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#517906
Pegasus Search vor meiner Haustür... Das war in der Tat leckerschmecker... Niemand ist unfehlbar.

Now that BigKev voiced his concern about an issue addressed long ago by some minor minion like me maybe it will be dealt with.
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By Spectre9
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#517952
Hoss-Drone wrote: Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
This kind of arrogant and exclusionary thinking has no place in this community. I would hope that Kris doesn't feel this way too.

I've already detailed in many other places why Borg have a lot of broken tools that are hard to counter even when you know they're coming.

I do know what the weaknesses of Borg are but they're almost all covered very well because the Borg are the ultimate toolkit affiliation being able to download everything on a whim.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#517996
Spectre9 wrote:
Hoss-Drone wrote: Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
This kind of arrogant and exclusionary thinking has no place in this community.

Projection exhibit A.

Are you sure I'm being arrogant since I can back up my comment with a number 1 ranking, the highest rating the CC has in its history for 1e and a long string of victories at major events against top level competition. People not agreeing with you does not mean they are arrogant or exclusionary. People basing opinions on experience and knowledge is what I would hope everyone would do.....and my implication is that deference is given to people with the most experience.

I would suggest before making accusations like that you stop and think about the context of the comment itself. My repeated NACC and regional victories (and now Kris') have been repeatedly pointed at as evidence that Borg are overpowered and my comment is in response to that....maybe when you've had several decks nerfed hard as a direct result of you and only you playing them you might start to understand my viewpoint.

Until then I suggest you keep your personal attacks to yourself.
Last edited by Hoss-Drone on Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#517998
Hoss-Drone wrote:
Spectre9 wrote:
Hoss-Drone wrote: Maybe just admit that Kris and I are just really good at this game, come prepared and it's not the deck.....
This kind of arrogant and exclusionary thinking has no place in this community.

Projection exhibit A.

Are you sure I'm being arrogant since I can back up my comment with a number 1 ranking, the highest rating the CC has in its history for 1e and a long string of victories at major events against top level competition. People not agreeing with you does not mean they are arrogant or exclusionary. People basing opinions on experience and knowledge is what I would hope everyone would do.....and my implication is that deference is given to people with the most experience.
Careful Kev. I was with you until the appeal to authority there at the end.

Dark horse players coming up with novel decks and upsetting the top players is a proud part of the game's history. You have a lot of answers. You may even have the most answers, but to say you have all of the answers is a bridge too far.
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 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#517999
Armus wrote:
Dark horse players coming up with novel decks and upsetting the top players is a proud part of the game's history. You have a lot of answers. You may even have the most answers, but to say you have all of the answers is a bridge too far.

Don't put words in my mouth. At what point do I say I have all the answers? I said I have a lot of experience in both playing with and against Borg and that informs my opinion they are not overpowered.

The rest is you making leaps that aren't there.
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By Spectre9
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#518003
Sorry if I came at you a bit hard. Maybe I've mistaken your confidence as arrogance, you certainly have an impressive record.

I invite you to play a game with me on Lackey some time. Perhaps you could show me a few moves so I could learn and become a better player myself. :cheersR:
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