For posting 1E deck designs for feedback from other players and members of the community.
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#541718
Yo! I'm new to the game, and Star Trek in general and have come across the Premier edition collector's tin. It's a full set of premier and now i'm wondering if you can even play the game, only having one of any given card. I know some games work very well in a singles format, hopefully this is one of them haha!

Are there any premier only deck lists that are single card format? Or can anyone help turn this sweet collector's tin into two competitive decks my brother and I could play against each other? Thanks!

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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#541731
Hi!

Can you make two decks from the tin? For certain!

Will they be "competitive" in the current climate? Not by a long shot. (I think that's not what you meant, but I wanted to clear it up.)

Will they be fun decks? Yes, if you're looking to play the 'old' game.
The game has changed a lot over the decades, and between Premiere and All Good Things you'd hardly recognize it; let alone, currently. Does that matter? No. You can still play that game. Don't let anybody tell you different! :wink: I still love it! :)
Later, you can come back here and up your game. Slowly, or with a bang. Up to you and the bro!

(The thing is, some people have evolved with the game and can't imagine going back. I think that's a big shame, and unwarranted. I think you can play many different [levels of] the game[s] with your cards.)

Can decks from the tin be balanced? Sure, if you want! :thumbsup: If you build the best FED deck there is potentially in that tin, it'll beat every ROM or KLI deck, though. So, you have to go easy on those relatively wonderful FED personnel and missions.

Deck lists... afraid not. I hope others will correct me, but this question pops up often and it doesn't look good. I have some 'Traditional' decks lined up (decks without any 'Virtual'/digital cards, modern errata, or new rules) but they are built from all the expansion sets -- not just Premiere.

But the Online Basic Deck Builder is a great tool with which you can easily add some personnel to a prospective deck, and 'analyse' the skill matrix to see what's missing or what can go out.

(If you can spare some money, want to support the site and get a much better version, get a Premium membership and get access to the Premium deck builder! But if need be, or just to start out and get to know it; I've been working with the Basic one for 5 years and it does get the job done, for sure.)

The 2-player introductory sets (FED and KLI) were made mostly with Premiere cards, though -- you could use them as a template!
Card lists for those are drifting around, so that'd be easy.

You'd be doing the community a favour if you build two (or three!) decks, share them, and perhaps we can refine them a bit, all together; and then we can offer decks to people who ask the same question. :)

Choose your path, and ask for any help or materials or links you may need. We'll be here to help! :cheersL:
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
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#541743
I realize now, that you were also asking help with building the deck.
Deckbuilding rules are in the booklet -- you should read them.
There's also the Player's Guide from Brady, if you can get that really cheap it may be worth it, but its tips and tricks do not extend an inch beyond Premiere. So outside of your tin it's totally useless. However, it has fun anecdotes and history sections about the game's development that I enjoyed.

Start with picking missions, alongside the personnel you think you may need. Eyeball them sort of in tandem, so that you can get an idea how easy you can make the missions with a certain bunch of peeps.
Redundancy in mission skills if, of course, great.
Make sure you have the personnel types -- MED, OFF, SEC, SCI, ENG -- in multiples.
If you think your pile may work, put it in the deck builder, and you'll see the totals. Can also make it public and ask feedback.

Use no (or few) non-aligned personnel for the FED deck. You'll need it for the other(s). Same goes for ships.

We soon played with not 60, but 70 card decks around 1995, 1996 (shortly after the game came out in 1994). Stick to max. 30 seed cards.

Some 4 ships for 30 draw cards; 5 or 6 for 40... Some 20 personnel... Rest: 'verbs' and equipment...

Random tip: If one deck has Borg Ship, give the second a Husnock boat; and/or Hugh (or give that to the third one... if that's even possible...).

Or you could swap dilemma piles, after playing a few games.

Ask whatever you need...

And if you like, tell us a bit about yourself!
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By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
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#541841
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:05 am The box might work as a cube? So u draft it and build decks. That usually also kinda balaces it. prem wasnt a good game though imo.
That's how I use premiere. I've got a set of it (and AU and QC) sleeved up so that I can shuffle it and make pseudo-sealed games.
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#541845
I'm not familiar at all with how cubes work or how to build one, but this sounds like a good idea. I think for now I'll try my hand at morphing the 2-player sets into decks that can run out the tin (to get some deck building experience). Then look into a cube.

Pick missions and personnel first then, and the rest around that? The 2player sets missions are promo, so should I try picking premier missions that are similar?

I'll be working on a FED deck first, and I should be wary of making it too powerful. Are there any FED cards in particular I should not put in? Full enterprise deck crew is not happening I'm guessing. Could I squeeze in some powerful personnel, to have an interesting crew but also remain balanced in the bubble I'm currently building in?

Thanks a bunch for giving me a warm welcome and some much needed kind help! I'll get working on these decks and post progress and, I'm sure, more questions in the days to come!

A little bit about me, the last two years I have been revisiting various "Dead CCG" I was interested in when I was younger. Star Trek is the latest in my gaming and I'm looking forward to giving it a try!
Last edited by SOLlDSNACK on Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
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#541850
Snack, your avatar has been selected for the SKSOA (SudenKäpälän Seal Of Approval). :thumbsup: I hope to keep seeing more of you, if only because of that. 8)

Perhaps I'd first concentrate on the other deck(s), and see how far you come and what you need for them (which cards). Then you have a power level that you can try to match (down to), with the FED deck; and you have cards left and others, you don't. The FEDs will always have better personnel and fitting missions.
But of course, I understand that you may want to play with the FEDs first. :wink: Just be mindful of the choice.

Last night I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about this puzzle.

I thought...

What if you make the best possible non-FED deck with the other cards... which might be a [Kli] [1E-Rom] treaty deck--

No! Wait! Just hear me out.

Treaty. Seed non-FED missions, beginning with all the [Kli] [1E-Rom] ones. (You'll be stuck with a 20 pts one, then... See if you can still make 100 pts efficiently). Seed [Art] Betazoid Gift Box under your first mission -- with it, you get the treaty out.
This will mean doing one mission. Perhaps with the [1E-Rom] , and thus emphasizing their dilemma penetrating skills (and number of personnel) more; in an ideal world, it'll be under a [Kli] [1E-Rom] mission and both your teams can solve it separately. Hmm, might not even be a bad idea. Perhaps under that easy 20 pts mission! (Plunder site? No, Relief mission.)

Then, perhaps, give the Red Alert AND The Traveler to the [1E-Rom] [Kli] . (My first idea was -- naturally -- to suggest you split 'em between the decks; but that was before the treaty idea.) That way, they have a better / other chance of getting out the Treaty; and also, better chance at either team ( [1E-Rom] or [Kli] ) to amount to something.
Perhaps have one side concentrate on fighting -- that'll keep the FEDs occupied (they be runnin' or hiding, coz you did NOT stack all the best ships in the [Fed] deck), until you have your Treaty and can finally begin the game. :lol:
Then the game equalizes, and you can go for (secondary) missions.

The [Fed] might get Kivas Fajo. Also take care how to divide Toff and Res-Q. Scans can also be important; give the Full Planet to the Treaty deck, so they may get to their [Art] and thus treaty, earlier.
Not sure whether to use other artifacts.

You can see how strong the Treaty deck is now, and you can adapt the [Fed] deck accordingly. You may want to refrain from getting Red Alert and/ or Traveler out with the Gift Box if you haven't already; because it may mess up the balance... or not. You'll have to playtest that.

You can see which side to give the best [NA] personnel -- a.o., our favourite rogue, Roga Danar. :thumbsup: I think if you'd use [Kli] or [1E-Rom] , separately, they'd have need for all the engineers they can get -- but together, they might be fine already. Again; TBD.

A wholly different idea is to give Horga'hn (I had to look up how to spell that) to the [1E-Rom] [Kli] , and have them get 2 turns... play 2 games in 1... ( [Fed] vs. [1E-Rom] , then [Fed] vs. [Kli] .) But that is a more weird idea. It might even be combined with the first idea, but not sure what that would end up in. :lol:

The [Fed] deck is easy to shift up or down in power, due to their benefits. Personnel, ships and missions have a wide range of quality and effectiveness. Putting in more difficult missions might be an easy and quick way to change the power level; so many FED-only missions available.
To make the FEDs' lives really miserable, you could give them not FED-only missions, but stealable ones. They'll have to tread more carefully, then! That's perhaps the best plan to keep them on their toes -- you can experiment and see what you like best, to balance out the two sides.

Perhaps that's the game in the game, then. Making sure that both of you, with equal games with each deck, still win about 50% of the time... THEN you will have made perfectly balanced decks! Certainly worth another SKSOA.

In any case, these ideas will get you two decks that play totally differently from one another. You and your brother can take turns using them, and see who wins more often with either.

I'd also love to try these decks out via Lackey, one day (the program with which we play Trek online -- you may know it).

Edit: Khitomer is [Kli] [1E-Rom] , whatever the card may say. The first prints only had one affiliation; that's a misprint.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
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#541851
edgeofhearing wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:41 pm
Ensign Q wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:05 am The box might work as a cube? So u draft it and build decks. That usually also kinda balaces it. prem wasnt a good game though imo.
That's how I use premiere. I've got a set of it (and AU and QC) sleeved up so that I can shuffle it and make pseudo-sealed games.
Sounds like a great idea, too. Takes more time structurally, but might be rewarding. I may have a custom cube format document somewhere, prolly not for Premiere, but perhaps there's explanations in it... I never cubed anything after school, so I wouldn't know how it works.

If you ever need it, I can look it up.
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#542045
Suden Kapala thanks for all the help (and the comment on the avatar). Like I said, I'm pretty new to Star Trek in general, but Roga has been a favorite character/episode for me so far.

It took me a bit to decipher your post, having not played a game or built a deck yet. I've gone through the rule book some and watched a video or two so I have some grasp of the basics now, and I like the idea of the treaty deck (though I will have to learn the rules around them better). Seein' how it's probably just gonna be me and my brother playing against each other, I like the idea of all 4 factions being represented between two decks. I had also noticed that there are less key personnel types among the Klingons than would seem ideal. The Klingons were who I was building a personnel list for before you mentioned the treaty, based on your earlier suggestion to build the FED deck after the other\s to balance. One I totally agree with.

1x Vekma MED, 1x Divok MED,
1x Kle'eg SEC, 1x Gorath SEC,
1x K'Tesh ENG, 1x Kromm ENG,
1x Kargan OFF, 1x Kurn OFF, 1x Nu'Daq OFF,
1x Torin SCI, 1x J'Ddan SCI, 1x Kurak SCI, 1x Koroth SCI, 1x Dukath SCI.

That is what I pulled together with the brief bit I've been workin' on it. MED, SEC, and ENG only have 2 personnel and going by the 2-player introductory deck 3 would be better. So I guess a question I have is what would be an ideal number for certain staff?

Another question would be do I want 100pts of missions or over 100pts to assure I can get to 100. Actually now that I think of it, It's probably not even possible to be at 100pts or under with 6 mission cards... Sorry, it's going to be deck building 101 with me :cheersL:

I'll take a look at Romulan personnel after I post this but another question I have is about V.I.P's. Do I want many of them? A few? Somewhere in between? Obviously powerful characters, but I see since they are not OFF, SCI, ect.. you may only want a few.

Definitely interested in input on a personnel and mission stack. I don't really know what a "good" card looks like yet. Obviously high attributes and lots of skills for personnel, but drawing from my experience with other games generally "high value" cards have a high (in-game) "value". My basic understanding so far is that you do not "purchase" cards in this game, you can simply play them. That would make low tier personnel pointless if they were not "cheaper". No point to have an OFF in the deck with 1 skill and 7 Strength, when you could have another with 4 skills and 9 Strength.

I need to read the rules more, but I wanted to update and I will continue to post progress on these "1995 Collector's Tin Decks" haha. Hopefully with continued input, cuz maybe others could benefit from this idea. :cheersL:
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#542050
SOLlDSNACK wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:19 am SSuden Kapala thanks for all the help
(and the comment on the avatar). Like I said, I'm pretty new to Star Trek in general, but
Roga has been a favorite character/episode for me so far.
YW :thumbsup:
The Hunted is also one of my, say, 700 fave episodes. :lol: (There are now just over 800 in total. :wink: )
It took me a bit to decipher your post, having not played a game or built a deck yet.
Sorry. Just ask.
Seein' how it's probably just gonna be me and my brother playing
I do really hope to meet you both in Lackey, for online play, someday. :cross:
I like the idea of all 4 factions being represented between two decks.
:) :thumbsup: That's the elegant / good side of my plan. Bad side is, your opponent will know your strategy and sees where you put your [Art] ... unless you seed 2 or 3 artifacts (at different missions -- can't seed more than 1 per location, but you don't want that, then, either), they can put their best dilemmas there. To try and make sure you'll never get the treaty with the box...
(But you could still draw it (faster), with Traveler...)
going by the 2-player introductory deck 3 would be better. So I guess a question I have is what would be an ideal number for certain staff?
That all depends on the dilemmas you (can) encounter. I'm not great at having a complete overview, but OTOH the dilemma pool is limited. 3 or 4 of SCI, MED, OFF, MED and SEC should be enough. Depends on who gets killed, of course.
Another question would be do I want 100pts of missions or over 100pts to assure I can get to 100.
What I meant was, which missions will you be likely / trying to do? Best is fewer, of course -- saves time. So, choose a balance between the various 'types' -- mission that have high point values, mission that can't be stolen, and missions that are easy to do with few personnel.
As said, personally, I would first put in the ROM/KLI ones, so that FED can't steal them. I hope that's 4 or more. The others, you could make ROM or KLI...

Yes, you'll always have much more than 100 pts on the 'line, but the question is: will you aim to to random/close ones, or will you plan?
Even in the latter case, you'll want to have contingencies built in. "What if" all your Diplo was killed and you hit Shaka Walls Fell? You'll need to 'improv'.
Sorry, it's going to be deck building 101 with me :cheersL:
That's OK.
another question I have is about V.I.P's. Do I want many of them? A few? Somewhere in between? Obviously powerful characters, but I see since they are not OFF, SCI, ect.. you may only want a few.
Again, the general answer lies in: what missions have you chosen (to actually do) -- and even more, what dilemmas can you encounter?
But in the case of Premiere-only and VIP, there are precious few dilemmas that benefit from just having the VIP type. (This changed later, a bit.)
Definitely interested in input on a personnel and mission stack. I don't really know what a "good" card looks like yet.
Yes you do... :thumbsup:
My basic understanding so far is that you do not "purchase" cards in this game, you can simply play them. That would make low tier personnel pointless if they were not "cheaper". No point to have an OFF in the deck with 1 skill and 7 Strength, when you could have another with 4 skills and 9 Strength.
Exactly; this is the case in Premiere. Later, 1- and 2-skill personnel would be made much more interesting. Eventually came boosts for 3- and 4-skillers.
But not yet. Only handy thing was you can play ❖ Giusti twice on table... :lol: and Kurak only once. But you don't have that prerogative(?).
I need to read the rules more, but I wanted to update and I will continue to post progress
Yes and yes.
Hopefully with continued input, cuz maybe others could benefit from this idea.
Also yes and yes!

:cheersR:
Last edited by SudenKapala on Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#542210
This puzzle has a tight grip on me. :shifty: It's been asked too often. I should be building decks for OP (organised play; tournaments I've signed up for). But. Right now, I'm building away, mainly at the "Treaty deck" ( [Kli] [1E-Rom] [NA] ). Working on personnel now.

I chose missions for both decks; and have prospective stacks of verbs ( [1E-Int] / [1E-Evt] ) already, for each.

In order to pool resources -- is anyone willing to look at the dilemmas? The division between both decks? (Of course I'm looking at you, Snack! :lol: But veterans who've know the cards for decades could also perhaps do this in a few minutes...)
I reserved Wind Dancer and Alien Parasites for the [Fed] deck, for now, because of reasons (and perhaps Shaka as well); the rest is all a blank slate. (Reminder: because of the pool -- the Collector's Tin -- any dilemma can only be used once. The goal is for a balanced pair of decks. With the Treaty personnel, I'm aiming at potentially facing any Premiere dilemma; I would plan the same for the [Fed] deck.)
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#542215
I'll post my Personnel and Mission list I pulled together last night. I don't have 20+ Personnel yet, there were some good choices for the last three spots. Some of the picks I wasn't too happy with, but fulfilled an important role. Even between the two affiliations ENG seem short supply and I avoided Holograms for now, just to make it easy on myself. The current list also only give me one Steller Cartographer.

Personnel
Klingon
R 1x B'Etor
C 1x Divok
R 1x Duras
C 1x Gorath
C 1x Kromm
R 1x Kurak
R 1x Kurn
R 1x Lursa
C 1x Vekma
Romulan
C 1x Jaron
U 1x Mirok
C 1x Palteth
C 1x Takket
C 1x Tarus
C 1x Taul
C 1x Thei
C 1x Varel

Mission
R 1x Explore Typhon Expanse
R 1x Khitomer Research
U 1x Plunder Site
C 1x Relief Mission
R 1x Sarthong Plunder
U 1x Secret Salvage

So as I was brewing this, I noticed more than a few cards talking about Romulan/Klingon plots and, of course, Duras. I noticed a theme within our theme and spotted a few, not great personnel, that follow that theme and was tempted to squeeze them in. I'm a sucker for the extra spice of theme decks and playing into a story line of sorts. Though I do understand we need to prioritize play and balance more than theme.

The offenders are: Kell, J'Ddan, Movar, Taibak.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
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#542219
Great, that you've come so far already! :thumbsup:
SOLlDSNACK wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:10 pmI noticed a theme within our theme and spotted a few, not great personnel, that follow that theme and was tempted to squeeze them in. I'm a sucker for the extra spice of theme decks and playing into a story line of sorts.
I'm after that, often, too. However, I do make up stories of my own while building, so the end result tends to a bit more extra-canon / fan fiction. :)
But that's okay -- this way, we get diverse decks.

I've been working real hard, too. And except for the dilemmas, I think I've finished my version of both decks :D . I'm proud of myself! (Don't feel rushed, nor slow; you're doing this for the first time! :shock: I've been at it for... forever. And badly, too. :lol: And you're doing fine, it seems!)
For the dilemmas, I've called for help from the community. Let's see if anybody has time; and else we'll wing it.

Have you been reading the Premiere rule booklet that came with your tin? Be prepared, then, for some changes as you expand your scope in the game. I kept close to it, but decided to allow for newer deck building rules. That means I go over the 30-card limit for the draw 60-card limit for total decks -- I go up to 74 78 (still working...). We'll find out whether you've still managed to make denser, better decks. :wink:
And if you're planning to stick to 30 draw 60 total cards, all the better; we'll then have two sets of Premiere single-card (no copies) decks that other Collector's Tin users can work with! 8) One very slim, unbloated and according to the original rules; and the other a bit more fleshed-out, perhaps more stable and diverse, and according to the newer rules. (I'd link to them -- but don't want to cause further confusion as yet. Ask me/us later!) :thumbsup:  

What surprised me, is that I have a feeling that the Treaty deck as I call it, feels to have turned out much stronger than I had anticipated.

I gotta go sleep now, and my deck workshop is a mess; but I hope to post my results soon. :cheersL:
Last edited by SudenKapala on Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
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#542579
Ensign Q wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:54 pm i joined the deckbuilding fun and threw together a klingon deck. it lacks the seedcards for now, but the drawdeck should work

https://www.trekcc.org/1e/decklists/ind ... ckID=24826
Five Kivases in one deck does kind of make the deck not quite fit with the plan of making "two good decks from the collector's tin."
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