For posting 1E deck designs for feedback from other players and members of the community.
#590056
Armus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:16 am I must say there's a part of me that misses things like "Devidian Door an android into space and build an outpost" ... I understand the reasons why it's not a thing, and there's a lot of broken nonsense I definitely DON'T miss, but yeah... the non-broken insanity that was possible in the PAQ era was a special flavor of fun and became an unfortunate casualty of the balancing and cleanup efforts over the years.
Completely agreed on all counts. One of my favorite rules entries of all time is the old FAQ entry on Devidian Door, which I recently re-read thanks to the @Klauser archive. (Pasted below for those who haven't had the joy of reading it... although I sadly mis-remembered the rule as *allowing* you to Devy Door someone "to the fish tank next door.") Part of the youthful exuberance the game once had, before settling down into a more mature and stable place. Kind of a "I don't regret doing the crazy stuff I did as a kid, but I'm sure as hell not doing it any longer."
Q: DEVIDIAN DOOR: WHERE PLAYED -- Where can a card coming from a Devidian Door be played? The card says " to anywhere." Is that literally true? Elaborate on the consequences of this.

A: Yes. It allows you to play one Personnel or Equipment card "anywhere" (and also "at any time", like an Interrupt card play). This creates a couple of tricky situations which we're going to try to resolve here and now.

1) First, "Can I play the card on the Kitchen table in the next room?" No, it has to be played somewhere within the scope of the game. There are many possible places to put it (many examples are given below). Placing the card in the fish tank is not within the scope of the game. ;-)

2) "Can I play the card onto one of my own ships, escape pods, or outposts, wherever they are located? Yes. Certainly this would be a common use for the D.Door, getting a key personnel quickly to a needed location.

3) "Can I play the card directly to any planet location?" Yes. It can arrive alone, or can join an away team there. It would not be affected by cards that hinder beaming, etc.

4) "Can I play the card to a space location?" Playing the card to a space location would of course mean it is left floating in space. At the current time, there is no card that allows personnel to survive in space. So, a person placed this way would logically be immediately killed, and furthermore would not be able to do a mission there before they die. I believe there is some evidence in the series that Soong-type Androids and Exocomps could survive the vacuum of space, so you can play with the ruling that these Personnel plus Equipment cards could be played to a space location where they are not aboard a ship. In that case, they would be considered to be "floating around" and may be rescued by one of your own ships. They would not be able to participate in a mission from such a position, however. The same would apply to "Gaps in Normal Space" on the spaceline, or even the Q-Net.

5) "Can I play the card down on the table (not on the spaceline) next to my events and artifacts (which play like events)?" Yes, but they would just sit there and do nothing, and at the current time there is not any way I know of to retrieve them. Perhaps someone can think of a use for such a tactic!

6) "Can I play the card to a mission location where my away team has just revealed a dilemma which I cannot overcome without the help of someone from the Devidian Door?" Yes, we would like that effect to be possible, although we admit it might become confusing in certain situations and possibly might be something that can be abused. We invite further feedback on this if someone finds a way to abuse it. Therefore at a later time we might have to create limitations.

7) "Can I play the card to augment my forces where an away team battle is already in progress?" Yes. This would be another common use, deploying the card to a planet or ship where it is needed to meet some immediate condition.

8 ) "Can I play the card underneath a mission (like a seed card)?" Yes, you can seed a personnel or equipment card. When it is discovered, it is considered an improperly seeded card and is placed out of play unless you have some way of making it properly seeded, such as a Cryosatellite at that location.

9) "Can I play the card onto one of my opponent's ships or outposts, etc., and attempt to capture their ship?" At the current time, we do not have rules to handle what it means to capture an opponent's ship (except in the limited case of Rogue Borg combined with Lore Returns). However, there are such concepts in the works for future expansions (as well as more Borg stuff related to those type of actions). Such rules would also require that the concept of "capturing", introduced in AU, will have to be enhanced; to cover situations where such an attack fails. This too is in the works. So, at the time of this writing, using the Devidian Door to place one of your Personnel on an opponent's ship (etc.) would essentially mean that they are immediately captured, and treated as captured personnel.

10) "Can I play the card onto my opponent's draw deck, discard pile, or hand?" Yes, but that would essentially mean that you are "giving" them that card to play as their own card (returning it to you at the end of the game). One reason to put a card in your opponent's draw deck would be to prevent him from ending the game next turn by drawing his last card; a desperate measure that might work in some circumstances.

11) "Can I play the card on a dilemma like the Borg ship or the Radioactive Garbage Scow?" Yes, but currently, these are the only two dilemmas that you can play personnel onto via the Door. If you play any personnel onto the Garbage Scow, they immediately die, due to radiation poisoning. If you play them onto the Borg ship, nothing happens to them, and when the Borg ship exits the spaceline, they go to back to your discard pile. (As mentioned before, there will likely be other cards in the future that would give players more to do if they get aboard a Borg Ship, but currently not).

12) "Can I play the card onto my own hand, discard pile, or draw deck?" Yes, you can play them to all of these places legally. They act just like they got there in the normal way. There wouldn't be much point in playing a card from your hand to your hand, but you could do it if you really wanted to.

These are some of the main examples of what you can do with the Devidian Door. I'm sure there are more. We intentionally left this card rather vague in order to "push the envelope" and allow maximum player creativity. If you try something new with the D.Door and wonder if it is legal or how it should be allowed to play out, just use common sense, bearing in mind both the "storyline" of time travel it represents and what rules currently exist to handle what you are trying to do. You have to live with the result within the current rule structure. If necessary, we might post some limitations on what can be done, but for now; let your creativity go!
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By boromirofborg (Trek Barnes)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
1E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#590057
Ok, most of that read had be both giddy AND a start of a stomach-ache at the implications of it. (Like playing them onto the opponents draw deck to prevent the game ending from decking...)

But this one:
Rachmaninoff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:44 pm 11) "Can I play the card on a dilemma like the Borg ship or the Radioactive Garbage Scow?" Yes, but currently, these are the only two dilemmas that you can play personnel onto via the Door. If you play any personnel onto the Garbage Scow, they immediately die, due to radiation poisoning. If you play them onto the Borg ship, nothing happens to them, and when the Borg ship exits the spaceline, they go to back to your discard pile. (As mentioned before, there will likely be other cards in the future that would give players more to do if they get aboard a Borg Ship, but currently not).
Ok, I vividly remember a long, 10 minute argument with the only other person who played that I knew at the time over if I could use Transporter Armbands to beam my crew on to a Borg ship dilemma to prevent them from dying. I said yes, he said no. We argued long enough his mom came in and made us do something different. (Orion, on the off chance you are reading this, I'm sorry. I was a jerk in the way only 12 year olds can be.)

I have felt a bit of guilt over this (oddly) for years, as I grew to know rules better, because it's a ridiculous idea now. Even though it acts like a ship, it's not a ship, and there's nothing saying that you could beam thru its shields. (This was pre-Borg rules of course. Premier only.)

However, this in a very small way gives me a slight vindication that I wasn't completely wrong, just a jerk. Ahh memories.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#590061
jadziadax8 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:42 pm #6 seems relevant to the whole Temptations of the Flesh/Microvirus issue. 🧐
Not really... this ruling predates basically all mission attempt/dilemma facing timing rules that exist today. It's a fun artifact of a different era, nothing more.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
2E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2023
ibbles  Trek Masters Tribbles Champion 2023
2E Deep Space 9 Regional Champion 2023
#590062
Armus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:56 pm
jadziadax8 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:42 pm #6 seems relevant to the whole Temptations of the Flesh/Microvirus issue. 🧐
Not really... this ruling predates basically all mission attempt/dilemma facing timing rules that exist today. It's a fun artifact of a different era, nothing more.
I was mostly thinking that D even back in the day was struggling with dilemma timing issues.
#617332
Lobo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:12 pm -I don't do the CC-digital expansions, but i'd kinda like to see about updating this for use today just because.

Without using too many non-Decipher cards, anyone have input on what this deck list should look like updated?

Gonna take a crack at it this weekend i think just for fun.
Well to answer your question, I have to ask a question. Are you planning on playing this in a friendly game using traditional Decipher rules, or are you planning on playing this in a sanctioned CC event using Modern rules?

If it is the former, not sure it would work, based on the rules even Decipher had at the end of their run. If it is the latter, it absolutely will NOT work. CC has errata-ed many of these cards. You can't dividian door an android into space, though you CAN seed an outpost. You cannot attempt missions from an outpost, and Ajur/Boratus cannot destroy seed card anymore.

So if you only seed 2 missions get ready to have to plow threw at least 9 dilemmas at each mission. Which... uh... isn't going to happen.
#617336
Casual, i havent played any CC-official stuff and dont plan to. i dont have a huge collection anymore, but i still have enough to do this i think.

i still have most of the parts of an old deck i used to run with a friend at tournaments. Husnock battle deck designed to pump weapons enough by turn 4 to blow up outposts. was before battle bridge, i think. was fun, not a serious competitor but when it worked...yikes.

if it's a dumb idea, i'll just go with a klingon deck. i have lots of forehead aliens and lots of k'vorts. i can make that work.

thanks!
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