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 Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets. 
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Delta Quadrant
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Post Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
In this topic, interest was shown in the question: how do you manage MP games within your environment?

This post has been sitting in my drafts folder for awhile. Time to get it out, although it's not nearly as finished as I'd have liked it to be. It won't be, in the forseeable future; but I promised to post it, so here goes.

For this to be a (possibly) valuable resource, it may be a good idea to refrain from discussions, at least initially; instead, dumping your rules stacks, so that interested players can read a few complete systems, and work with them. :twocents:
That would've been nice, if not my own rules dump would've been streamlined. It's not, due to time constraints, and the fact that in practice, these rules have (paradoxally) worked far better and intuitive than 'on paper' / below.
So excuse the mess, take it as-is, and feel free to discuss. 8)

For the record: I've played only 5 MP games (4x 3-way, 1x 4-way) so far. The first one was (and felt like) a trial, but after the first I sat at the drawing board for a long time, and the next 4 got progressively more structured. (Even though they were always played with at least 1 person who was a 1e novice.) These fairly positive results actually really surprised me, given the (non-documented, but chaotic) MP efforts that I experienced in the 90ies.
OTOH, we've so far played with far smaller card pool (i.e. Traditional, and only that part of it which I own more than once, since the first of every card goes into safekeeping in my binders -- I'm a collector first). So many cards that may need additional rulings have not been seen by us.


For us, it's like this (fairly raw dump of 'house rules bible' follows; coloured emphasis for newer parts):

Suden's 'house rules bible' wrote:
HR#6 All rules apply to single & multiplayer games.

Unless otherwise stated (meaning, stated elsewhere in these house rules and/or other rules documents as defined under HR#1, HR#15 and HR#18), and unless logically and undeniably exclusive to single player games, any (house) rule that applies to two-player games also applies to multiplayer games.

HR#10 Multiplayer game basics.

For multiplayer games, see p237; except for space line arrangement. For space line arrangement, see HR#11; and also, see page 256 onwards in the book ‘Official Players Guide’ (see p324 for details on the book itself).

Borg Ship will start towards center of spaceline grid; then will enter first clockwise spoke; bounce off its end (and return inward); and from center, traverse next clockwise spoke, etc., eventually leaving spaceline as usual when it has reached end of the last spoke before the one that it entered play on. I.e., there will be only one part of same-quadrant spaceline not visited: the 'beginning' of the spoke where the movement started.

MISs that are completed are not slid “towards the solver” as usual (because that would be confusing or even difficult to accomplish). Instead, they are rotated 90degs, indicating they are no longer attemptable. (Not sure if the previous is needed/practical.) (HR#26 governs score-keeping.)

In case of DIL game text requiring an 'opponent' to take an action that is unrelated to any in-play aspect - such as making a choice or capture a PER - this refers to the opponent that seeded the DIL. (Refer, if possible, to ownership markings: e.g. opaque card sleeve colour.) However, if a DIL requires an opponent to provide a game element, such as 'Tal Shiar (for Flaxian Assassin) or Treachery or Security PER (Extraction?), these requirements may be met by any one opponent. (What to do w/ Scout Encounter?)

180914; forum, still to be incorporated as full rulings text:
At forum, I wrote:
additional rules are very simple:
- Seed spaceline in an X-form (or Y-form, when 3 players) without any additions*.
- Players take turns clockwise (CW).
- During seeding, you seed dilemmas only under 'next' (CW) player's missions (and, possibly, your own).
- During play, the 'previous' player (i.e., counter-CW; the owner of the dilemma), facilitates dilemmas for current player (e.g. selections, choices, downloads).
- "Other spaceline end" rules: if movement / relocation by own choice / own card (e.g., Lakanta, WNOHGB): choose any end. If required / automatic / dictated by opponent card OR any dilemma, use factual opposite end 'bouncing' rules stated above, concerning Borg Ship dilemma.
All(?) other things, like adding additional quadrants, or concepts of "farthest planet", can be logically deduced from the official rules.


HR#11 Spaceline arrangement in multiplayer games.

In multiplayer games of X players, the space line is arranged outward from an empty centre spot. From that spot, X spokes (of 6 mission cards each) are laid out. See page 256 onwards of aforementioned book ‘Official Players Guide’. As usual, missions are shuffled first and laid out in random order; and players take turns laying out missions – adding to the previously laid cards.
No universal Nebula mission card is used as centre; no cards are laid out in a ‘wheel’ circumference; and the ‘Space...’ mission card is not banned (but, as usual, two must be used, for ‘Space...’ counts as only ½ card. As stated in the Glossary, both must be seeded as usual and cannot normally be played later).
The cards are arranged on a virtual grid or matrix: in right (90deg) angles. As such, effectively, the center MISs are seeded as a block. (Not sure if this is needed/practical.)

Multiple quadrants will constitute 'breaks' somewhere between the center and a spoke, similar to a usual 2-player spaceline.

HR#22 Multiplayer dilemma seeding.

Dilemma seeding in multiplayer games is generally done under the missions of the ‘next’ player (the player whose turn follows the current player’s; see p238). Only if a dilemma specifically targets another player’s affiliation AND NOT the ‘next’ player’s affiliation, or if a dilemma CANNOT legally be seeded under any of the ‘next’ player’s missions, may it be seeded at another player’s mission. (Verification of this can be made by identifying the ownership of the dilemma when it is encountered, via its distinguishable sleeve, HR#4.)
When playing – in order to further speed up the seeding phase – with pre-arranged DIL ‘stacks’ (as defined under ‘typical dilemma distributions’ in the ‘deck bible’ for most deck variants), it may happen that players have too few SPA DIL stacks. Players then (and ONLY then) may blindly trade (face-down) stacks or otherwise make sure that each MIS is hampered by an appropriate stack.

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Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:55 am
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
I am confused. Why does the numbering skip around?

Are there more house rules in this bible and you're not showing me?

I demand to see all the house rules!

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Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:29 pm
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Delta Quadrant
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
BCSWowbagger wrote:
I am confused. Why does the numbering skip around?

Are there more house rules in this bible and you're not showing me?

Yes.

Quote:
I demand to see all the house rules!

Would you believe me that I wrote them in my native tongue? And that I translated them here, barring time constrains? ... Thought not.

I'd feel very silly to send over the whole document. It's a silly document.

On the other hand, why'd I write it? Well, to disemmanate(?? Again, a word that I know, but not how to spell it) it in my play group. But I never even got around to finishing it. And because I'm playing more with new players now, I tend to gravitate towards full Open. With batch seeding. Still -- it served a purpose... once.

I'll think about it -- but why would you be interested in a lot of Traditional, Decipher-era house rules...?

Never mind, I know. You're a rules nerd, like I am. Despite us living in different eras.

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Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:38 pm
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
SudenKapala wrote:
Never mind, I know. You're a rules nerd, like I am. Despite us living in different eras.

That, and house rules are an incredibly rare and incredibly enlightening look into the basically unknown world of kitchen-table players. Nobody has a handle on how casual players around the world engage with the game, because they are precisely the players who AREN'T hanging out here for the most part.

I forgot that it would have to be translated. I'll still take the document! Google Translate can get me the gist, most likely, and, if not, at least it'll be saved somewhere and thus not lost to history if your playgroup breaks up.

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Star Trek: Excelsior | Ass't designer: Cold Front, The Cage | I support Exhibition Format

Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put thy Glossary back into its place: for he who takes up the Glossary shall perish with the Glossary."
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:12 pm
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Delta Quadrant
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
BCSWowbagger wrote:
house rules are an incredibly rare and incredibly enlightening look into the basically unknown world of kitchen-table players. Nobody has a handle on how casual players around the world engage with the game, because they are precisely the players who AREN'T hanging out here for the most part.

I find that hard to believe -- almost everyone of us plays casual games, right? (Well, not everybody, but most.)
Or -- do you mean to say, that most players who come here, always use OTF and/or never use house rules?

And did nobody ever ask -- "do you have house rules for your kitchen games"?

That's the one grievance I have with this site -- its preoccupation with OP, and its lack of support and motivation -- or, no, rather: little inspiration and interest -- for things like untimed, blatantly long, slow, true, old-skool, fun, potentially broken but non-competitive, Open Traditional Decipher-era play.

Even my proposed article about my more generic "Impulse Speed" teaching format fell by the wayside. Granted, it has low priority and I don't blame anybody, but it goes to show that alternate rules sets or formats are -- as yet!? -- not carried by the community. (I know you are a champion of them, though.)

Quote:
I forgot that it would have to be translated.

That was my "humour". Read my post again. It played at me hoping to convince you that it was not in English, so that your request would simply go away -- and not believing you'd believe it. And then... you did. 8)
It's all in English. My English. You better know it. :o

Quote:
it'll be saved somewhere and thus not lost to history if your playgroup breaks up.

I'm a nerd. Even though none of my play group have it yet, how would you ever figure it'd be lost for posterity? :P

Because of its fragmented and unfinished nature, and its fresh, ignorant, novice-like disregard for many modern aspects of the game, I'd feel uncomfortable making it public. I stopped developing it a long while -- at least over a year, prolly two -- ago. Since then, I learnt a lot of things that I might do different now, were I to restart it. OTOH, I am slowly veering away from wanting to have a house rules bible, period.

Deep down, I think I just want to play "untimed, (...), Open Traditional Decipher-era" 1e with friendly people who will agree to not use the broken aspects and card combos, and just have a good time.

I want that with a vengeance.

And so far, according to my mission logs, I've done 114h, 55m, and 55s of just that (across my last 40 games). (Nice to be able to filter some things in my spreadsheet, and come up with such figures. Even though the times are really just estimates, of course. :P )

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Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:54 pm
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
SudenKapala wrote:
Or -- do you mean to say, that most players who come here, always use OTF and/or never use house rules?
Nailed it in one. Most players I know even maintain time limits at "casual" games.

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Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put thy Glossary back into its place: for he who takes up the Glossary shall perish with the Glossary."
-Mt 26:52


Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:14 pm
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
BCSWowbagger wrote:
SudenKapala wrote:
Or -- do you mean to say, that most players who come here, always use OTF and/or never use house rules?
Nailed it in one. Most players I know even maintain time limits at "casual" games.


Wow, that's hardcore casual. ;)

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Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
AllenGould wrote:
hardcore casual


Processing... processing...

*mind expodes.*

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Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:35 pm
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
I started a thread a while back talking about our space wheel setup. It's the most common casual play house rule set we use.

We briefly used a variant rule that restricted our decks to the same uniqueness rules as play; i.e. if it's not universal or otherwise unrestricted during play, you're restricted to how many can be in your deck. It was quite fun, especially with a little limited PAQ card pool. Losing Data was far more tense when you couldn't just play another one, but instead had to make due, or pack Events to get him back. I think we just got bored with the restrictions it introduced to our deck ideas, so we eventually moved away from it. If I remember right, I think this rule was suggested in the Player's Guide from 1995.


Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:36 am
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Post Re: Depository for custom 1e MP (multi-player) rules sets.
Another few notes from a conversation that started here. A hitherto, by me unseen, new version (emphases by me).

SudenKapala wrote:
Trekcc rules wrote:
Cytherians is great in multiple player even more than 2 players.

Ah! So you also play multi-player games.

This means you might have custom rules for your MP endaevours. (For you must have a custom way, at least, of dealing with e.g. spaceline-traveling dilemmas? And how to choose the spaceline's end for this particular dilemma?)

Discovery suxs wrote:
We just make a long spaceline. Which makes Cytherians awesome in mp format. It also makes the game harder because you have to travel alot more in the game. We put all dilemmas in order of players. So yes it hurts combos but always helps the game. Since you are up against everyone.

Really besides those rules just do what is normal in the game.

Suden wrote:
What do you mean by this, exactly?

Disco wrote:
Order of players is like the otf rule for same mission.

So if you have 4 players.
All players do there dilemmas outside the missions. You then sort dielmmas by the players under the missions. Ie players mix up dilemmas according to all 4 players there. So if all 4 players seeded 2 dilemmas. It will be player 1 dilemma then player 2 dilemma then 3 then 4 then repeat the process. So you never encounter the same player only.

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Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:47 pm
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