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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
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2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#534156
Armus wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm Getting your first cube blown up by a battle deck on turn 3 and then getting your SECOND cube blown up on turn 4, then sitting there for another 10 turns drawing cards while your opponent plays solitaire is a bigger issue in my book. That actually happened. And it was the least amount of fun I had playing this game since dealing with broken Delta Quadrant bullshit at Worlds 2002.

But I learned from it, and I updated my deck to give myself a better chance next time.
:shifty: :shifty:
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First Edition Art Manager
By jjh (Johnny Holeva)
 - First Edition Art Manager
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#534157
Armus wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm Getting your first cube blown up by a battle deck on turn 3 and then getting your SECOND cube blown up on turn 4, then sitting there for another 10 turns drawing cards while your opponent plays solitaire is a bigger issue in my book. That actually happened. And it was the least amount of fun I had playing this game since dealing with broken Delta Quadrant bullshit at Worlds 2002.

But I learned from it, and I updated my deck to give myself a better chance next time.
This is a topic worth discussion.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#534158
jjh wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:39 pm
Armus wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm Getting your first cube blown up by a battle deck on turn 3 and then getting your SECOND cube blown up on turn 4, then sitting there for another 10 turns drawing cards while your opponent plays solitaire is a bigger issue in my book. That actually happened. And it was the least amount of fun I had playing this game since dealing with broken Delta Quadrant bullshit at Worlds 2002.

But I learned from it, and I updated my deck to give myself a better chance next time.
This is a topic worth discussion.
There's plenty of threads on Battle Borg. Jon can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure anything happened in that game that wasn't well within the typical capabilities of a Battle Borg deck.

Tying it into this topic, this sort of thing is the better argument for having a ❖ [1E-TNG] Borg Cube with standard weapons. Had my J-25 Cube had 1 more point of weapons, Jon and I would've taken each other out and I'd have won because I finished an objective before getting taken out.

As it was, his Queen's Cube took out my J25 Cube, I got Locutus Cube, then Locutus Cube and Queen's Cube took each other out, but he was able to bring in his Locutus Cube and have his way with the spaceline.
Last edited by Armus on Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By Boffo97 (Dave Hines)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Retired Moderator
#534166
I remember a time where the game as a whole was rock, paper, scissors in a way.

Cheese decks beat normal decks.
Anti-cheese decks beat cheese decks.
Normal decks beat anti-cheese decks.
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By Ensign Q
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#534525
Armus wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:47 pm
jjh wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:39 pm
Armus wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm Getting your first cube blown up by a battle deck on turn 3 and then getting your SECOND cube blown up on turn 4, then sitting there for another 10 turns drawing cards while your opponent plays solitaire is a bigger issue in my book. That actually happened. And it was the least amount of fun I had playing this game since dealing with broken Delta Quadrant bullshit at Worlds 2002.

But I learned from it, and I updated my deck to give myself a better chance next time.
This is a topic worth discussion.
There's plenty of threads on Battle Borg. Jon can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure anything happened in that game that wasn't well within the typical capabilities of a Battle Borg deck.

Tying it into this topic, this sort of thing is the better argument for having a ❖ [1E-TNG] Borg Cube with standard weapons. Had my J-25 Cube had 1 more point of weapons, Jon and I would've taken each other out and I'd have won because I finished an objective before getting taken out.

As it was, his Queen's Cube took out my J25 Cube, I got Locutus Cube, then Locutus Cube and Queen's Cube took each other out, but he was able to bring in his Locutus Cube and have his way with the spaceline.
why did u bring j25 in the mirror? could have started with locutus and cancel out the first attack. how do they kill each other? weapons=shields
Last edited by Ensign Q on Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Online OP Coordinator
By pfti (Jon Carter)
 - Online OP Coordinator
 -  
2E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#534526
Hit with Max fire power = three tactics. BBD is 4 cards. so unless i draw both 40% tactics, 1 hit =boom
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#539962
As a :borg: fan, I love nano-resuscitating threads.
Professor Scott wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:17 pm
AllenGould wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:23 pm
Caretaker's Guest wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:04 am Yeah more help for TNG Borg. Unnecessary. If you fear the lockout do not play that nonsense. Adapt or die :) :) .
I'd spot them a TNG version of the 5/11 drone (the one that prevents Borg from being put in stasis). Not that most Borg players bother with that one anyway.
The problem with a [TNG] property version of Five of Eleven is the first listed SCIENCE skill. I think they have been deliberately avoiding first listed SCIENCE and ENGINEER skill drones.
3 questions.

1) Does this work -- in a non-TNG deck -- if the Heuristics and Cyber drone are on the QSL-affected [Bor] boat, can P'chan then not rotate a new ENGINEER in?

2) What is that about first-listed skills?

3) Also, wouldn't a TNG scout ship with a sphere-like ability be nice? May report with crew, max.2, to your cube?

(But I guess the solution is already lined up...? 8) )
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By Professor Scott (Mathew McCalpin)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Trailblazer
1E Cardassia Regional Champion 2023
#539972
SudenKapala wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:13 pm As a :borg: fan, I love nano-resuscitating threads.
Professor Scott wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:17 pm
AllenGould wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:23 pm

I'd spot them a TNG version of the 5/11 drone (the one that prevents Borg from being put in stasis). Not that most Borg players bother with that one anyway.
The problem with a [TNG] property version of Five of Eleven is the first listed SCIENCE skill. I think they have been deliberately avoiding first listed SCIENCE and ENGINEER skill drones.
3 questions.

1) Does this work -- in a non-TNG deck -- if the Heuristics and Cyber drone are on the QSL-affected [Bor] boat, can P'chan then not rotate a new ENGINEER in?

2) What is that about first-listed skills?

3) Also, wouldn't a TNG scout ship with a sphere-like ability be nice? May report with crew, max.2, to your cube?

(But I guess the solution is already lined up...? 8) )
1) I haven't played non- [1E-TNG] [Bor] so I can't say, but the fact that they can report more ships means you can't get the same lock out that you can against [1E-TNG] [Bor] .

2) Distribution Node

3) Sure
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#539992
Professor Scott wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:10 pm
SudenKapala wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:13 pm 1) Does this work -- in a non-TNG deck -- if the Heuristics and Cyber drone are on the QSL-affected [Bor] boat, can P'chan then not rotate a new ENGINEER in?

2) What is that about first-listed skills?

3) Also, wouldn't a TNG scout ship with a sphere-like ability be nice? May report with crew, max.2, to your cube?

(But I guess the solution is already lined up...? 8) )
1) I haven't played non- [1E-TNG] [Bor] so I can't say, but the fact that they can report more ships means you can't get the same lock out that you can against [1E-TNG] [Bor] .

2) Distribution Node

3) Sure
Yeah, 3) was a bit of a vague question. :)

Thanks for 2)!

I asked 1), because that might be a much faster and cheaper way to overcome any stasis threat than bringing a ship out.
Before now, I didn't know that QSL would still affect the ship. I seem to have subconsciously assumed (never a good idea...) that "your Borg" on Cyber meant it would go for all [Bor] cards...
But now, even with 2 ships present, you can't even cross-beam engineers because the transporter buffer is in stasis!?
Hence my question -- Heuristics can "reprogram" a drone into a new one, but, would it then be "arriving" as per Lifeforms?

So. Anybody else who can advise, for my non- [1E-TNG] deck?

(And I remember drones by their task, not the designation numbers. But the links work, so...)
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#539993
Wait. We have the "new" DRG. It says,

If any condition met (either player plays Emergency Transporter Armbands OR Timepod Ring anywhere in play OR either player moves or reports a new ENGINEER to the location), discard cured dilemma.

So, if "reporting" is "arriving", then I really think reprog/downloading is, too. :) :thumbsup:

What baffles me, though, is the phrase, "anywhere in play". Seems to go for the Ring (plays on table :shifty: ) AND the Armbands (which could perfectly well be played at the affected location... or not?)

The plot thickens. I used ETA last back in the 90s, but the new text seems to be NOT LOCALISED (doesn't say "present" or "at location")...? Also, doesn't give a time frame in which it operates...? :neutral:
(Still, I guess it would work just once for a single loc / sit.)

My first thought was: Because all is in stasis, nothing is targettable? But for QSL, the ETA don't really target... so... What is the rationale for that phrase?

I give up. :P
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#540046
To meet a condition or solve a mission with an [1E-Int] or an [Art] that plays as one, you play it and it is discarded. The card's effect is meeting the condition or solving the mission, similar to how Wormhole missions work. I can't find the glossary or rulebook section that says so right now, however.

See also: Investigate Time Continuum do you smell something
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#540062
winterflames wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:31 am To meet a condition or solve a mission with an [1E-Int] or an [Art] that plays as one, you play it and it is discarded. The card's effect is meeting the condition or solving the mission, similar to how Wormhole missions work. I can't find the glossary or rulebook section that says so right now, however.
It's in the Rulebook in a sidebar titled "cards played as costs":
Sometimes, a player is permitted or required to play a specific card in order to resolve an action. When this is the case, use only the game text of the action; ignore the game text of the card being played as a cost.

For example, I Hate You can be nullified by playing Vulcan Nerve Pinch as a cost. If a player chooses to do so, then I Hate You is nullified, but the gametext of Vulcan Nerve Pinch is ignored. Both cards are then discarded.

Cards which are played as a cost may be responded to normally, and, if the card played as a cost is nullified, the original action resolves as if the card were not played; no other costs are paid.

For example, ❖ Nebula allows a player to initiate battle at its location, at the cost of a Scan card. When Scan is thus played to initiate battle, its gametext is ignored (do not examine the cards beneath the mission). The opponent may nullify the Scan (for example, with Quinn), causing Scan to be discarded and the battle to be cancelled. (However, the player may immediately play another Scan from hand, if one is available.) By the same token, if you play a Wormhole in conjunction with a face-up Relief Mission II in order to move to another location, and your opponent nullifies the Wormhole, the Wormhole is discarded, but, because "no other costs are paid," Relief Mission II remains face-up.
https://www.trekcc.org/op/1e_rulebook/#ENTERINGPLAY

It's also in the Glossary as actions - step 1: initiation, paragraph 3, "cards which are played as a cost" <https://www.trekcc.org/op/1e_rulebook/G ... initiation>

Despite this, nobody can ever find this rule (including me), even though it comes up fairly often. When you are trying to find it, where in the Glossary do you look for it? Where would you look for it if you knew nothing about the Glossary? It's a good candidate for a new cross-reference or three.

EDIT: There's another, related rule for missions specifically, under discarding in the Glossary:
When a mission allows or requires you to discard a card as part of its requirements, or for extra points, that card must come from the crew or Away Team attempting the mission, not from your hand, at the time the mission is solved. All other discards (e.g., for Static Warp Bubble) come from the hand unless otherwise specified. A single discard cannot satisfy two discard requirements. For example, the required discard for Static Warp Bubble cannot also be used to reopen a Spacedoor.
Last edited by BCSWowbagger on Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By SudenKapala (Suden Käpälä)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#540066
BCSWowbagger wrote:
Despite this, nobody can ever find this rule (including me), even though it comes up fairly often.
When you are trying to find it, where in the Glossary do you look for it? Where would you look for it if you knew nothing about the Glossary? It's a good candidate for a new cross-reference or three.
I love me some crossrefs.

The phrase "playing as cost" is new to me. It's not in my system. I'd never think to look for it. But that may be entirely my own problem. For reference, I've been dabbling in CCGs for a long time and know a bit about Magic, Wars (SWCCG), TLOTR TCG, and a (tiny?) bit about 1e STCCG.

I'd try to look under:
card -- play -- response;
interrupt -- response;
response;
valid response (not sure if it's the same thing; but it's where I'd look);
nullification (by means of card mentioned on to-be-nullified card).

On a side note: Dangerous Liaisons does it too, but at least it's worded really Käpälä-proof. (And the irony is I've never been able to use it. I don't even have that card.)
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#540085
I searched for the 3 card titles in the glossary. I searched the Mission attempt portion of the rulebook, which reminded me about Smell Something. I searched for Time Travel Pod in the glossary. I gave up, posted i couldn't find it and went back to dressing my 4 year old for church.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#540088
:thumbsup: Thanks, both.
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