Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#549821
It's Wednesday! We're more than halfway through the week. Since we are over the hump, let's look at a question!



This week we look to dilemmas. Specifically dilemmas that need errata. What dilemma urgently needs help and should be a high priority? Which dilemma does not need high priority but should be changed, more of a nice to have. Most importantly why?
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#549823
I know some would probably disagree, but Bread and Circuses should change skills away from Archaeology and Transporters. I built the skill multipliers to be half piles and eventually run out of gas. I really don't think they're the problem. I'm happy to be called wrong. I very well might be. Maybe it just took that dilemma to get people's attention. Still, it's too bad that they were designed to focus on the only two skills that are mostly found on planet and space dilemmas and then, in the next full set, a dual dilemma comes along that has both of them, makes using skills hard, and, oh yeah, also bounces. I'm really not a fan of single cards that do everything. I prefer game and deck design that utilizes engines that can run even if a couple pieces are missing. It makes the experience of every game unique.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#549828
The Guardian wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:54 pm I know some would probably disagree, but Bread and Circuses should change skills away from Archaeology and Transporters.
I 100% agree that B&C is the card to change. Even if the “doublers” didn’t exist, this dilemma shouldn’t do the all-stop, bounce AND prevent low-cost personnel from using their skill.


My second choice would be change Nothing to Lose to “Integrity <5.” There’s enough skill sharing/gain and Integrity 4 personnel such that this change would make the dilemma far less reliable.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#549846
GooeyChewie wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:43 pmMy second choice would be change Nothing to Lose to “Integrity <5.” There’s enough skill sharing/gain and Integrity 4 personnel such that this change would make the dilemma far less reliable.
That’s another great choice. I might just change the effect from an all stop. I think requirements and effects should be balanced. Yes, we have cost to help, but having a dilemma with tough requirements and a powerful effect seems like another good example of a dilemma doing too much.

Both of these are great examples too because they make people look for such specific stuff on new personnel. It’s hard not to evaluate a new personnel at least partly by whether the personnel has a skill required by a feared dilemma, and that may be unavoidable, but it feels reductive.
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Executive Officer
By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
 -  
Grand Nagus
2E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#549884
The Guardian wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:54 pm I know some would probably disagree, but Bread and Circuses should change skills away from Archaeology and Transporters.
I'm OK with Arch and Trans on it. I don't mind the all-stop. I do mind the bounce and the fact that your weenies can't use their skills. Those are the two things I would take off and that probably brings the cost down to 3.
GooeyChewie wrote:My second choice would be change Nothing to Lose to “Integrity <5.” There’s enough skill sharing/gain and Integrity 4 personnel such that this change would make the dilemma far less reliable.
Still bones the Borg.
edgeofhearing wrote:Make the "randomly select three, if any have X skill, all are stopped" cycle from CtA (such as So Many Enemies) cheaper, and stop one if they whiff. They still won't be as good as An Issue of Trust/Personal Duty, but it could make them interesting tech cards if you expect certain match-ups.
I like this one! I've been thinking about these a lot since I've been playing so much IDIC Draft and these cards are in there. Moral Choice, et. al., is strictly better than all of them because it costs less and guarantees a stop.
Naetor wrote:Overcosting a Chula and getting Game stops is Discovery- level dumb.
You can't do that since the errata. The timing changed.

My choice on this is Gomtuu Shockwave. No dilemma should have the same attribute requirements on both sides. I have been debating which side should get the cunning or strength requirement. I actually think it should be Dipl + Int or Telepathy + cunning, but unsure on that.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#549889
jadziadax8 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:51 am Still bones the Borg.
It's true that Borg would still have no personnel who natively gets past the dilemma. Different affiliations have different strengths and weaknesses, so I'm okay with one affiliation being weak against a particular dilemma.

Also, if the dilemma becomes less powerful against all other decks, players will not stock it as often. Borg would get a meta benefit in that regard.

Also also, even though Borg have no personnel who natively meet the requirements, they do have a couple of ways to mitigate the dilemma. Since NtL gets overcome, Adapt can prevent and overcome additional copies. Currently Ascertain could be used with Continuity Drone to give Locutus (or one of the lower Integrity Borg Queens) 2 Programming; changing it to <5 would allow the same trick with the Borg Queen, Guardian of the Hive, who can also swap in Continuity Drone in a pinch.
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
2E British National Second Runner-Up 2019
#549955
Moral Choice - My first choice would be [Fed] Honor personnel, and second choice would be [Fed] non-Treachery personnel.

There's no reason why the Maquis, Mirror TOS, Equinox-crew, or Future Voyager Holograms should still be getting caught by this.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#550042
Danny wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:37 am Moral Choice - My first choice would be [Fed] Honor personnel, and second choice would be [Fed] non-Treachery personnel.

There's no reason why the Maquis, Mirror TOS, Equinox-crew, or Future Voyager Holograms should still be getting caught by this.
Interesting, from both a Trek-sense and gameplay point of view. Those are all underutilized.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#550058
The Guardian wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:59 pm
Danny wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:37 am Moral Choice - My first choice would be [Fed] Honor personnel, and second choice would be [Fed] non-Treachery personnel.

There's no reason why the Maquis, Mirror TOS, Equinox-crew, or Future Voyager Holograms should still be getting caught by this.
Interesting, from both a Trek-sense and gameplay point of view. Those are all underutilized.
At the risk of diverging from the specific topic mentioned, can I just point out that the scary stories that led to the Athos IV errata seem especially overblown today.

Apparently Cascade Virus wasn't enough to keep people playing it once Quatal Prime came out and now it's at (or very near) the bottom of the Headquarters heap.

Maybe Ctrl+Z that one and see what happens?
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By Naetor
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Praetor
#550083
Armus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:43 pm At the risk of diverging from the specific topic mentioned, can I just point out that the scary stories that led to the Athos IV errata seem especially overblown today.
I am learning a lot about erratas I didn't know existed in this thread.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#550107
Armus wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:43 pm At the risk of diverging from the specific topic mentioned, can I just point out that the scary stories that led to the Athos IV errata seem especially overblown today.

Apparently Cascade Virus wasn't enough to keep people playing it once Quatal Prime came out and now it's at (or very near) the bottom of the Headquarters heap.

Maybe Ctrl+Z that one and see what happens?
You mean the [Fed] Treachery option? I'm not sure it was so much scary stories as headaches, but I might need my memory refreshed. Certainly, giving Maquis access to other reporting icons and the cards in their arsenals might cause some deck bleed (am I remembering the arguments correctly?), but really, from a design standpoint, having to consider how every badmiral interacts with a faction that they weren't supposed to is an annoyance. I like that the [Maq] icon does the heavy lifting.

As I consider what you're saying, rhetorically, I want to turn it around to examine it. Would you be okay with the TNG headquarters getting access to all "[Fed] Honor" personnel (as the most honorable of the Fed sub-affiliations; also, about the same number of personnel)? Just a slew of personnel from different factions being added to TNG. (I honestly don't know anyone's answer to this question. It just seemed like a reasonable example.)
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Ambassador
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Ambassador
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Socialite
Community Contributor
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
#550111
Speaking of Honor and Treachery, I've always liked Forsaken because there aren't many dilemmas like it. It has never quite had enough of a punch to use much outside of sealed though. That said, a wall-that-filters-when-you-pass-it is more of a 1e thing I guess. You don't really need a dilemma that blocks red-shirts in 2e.

Stay Where Thou Art has an interesting effect, but could also use a bit, maybe just to hit more easily.

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