Discuss all of your questions, concerns, comments and ideas about Second Edition.
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By Faithful Reader (Ross Fertel)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
#556512
It's Wednesday! We're more than halfway through the week. Since we are over the hump, let's look at a question!



Last week we looked at keyword support. Specifically on personnel what groups could use a recruitment tactic in their ranks.

This week, we want to know what you feel about the quantity of keywords. There are currently sixty-seven in the game, the most recent being Chef. Do you want more? If so, which one(s) do you want? Let us know!
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Goateed
Community Contributor
1E American National Second Runner-Up 2020
#556515
Give me a "Keyword" keyword. I'm sure that opens up all sorts of design possibilities!
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
2E British National Second Runner-Up 2019
#556537
I'd be happy with:
  • Clone
  • First
  • Specialist
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Second Edition Balance Manager
By monty42 (Benjamin Liebich)
 - Second Edition Balance Manager
 -  
2E World Top 16 2019
Nemesis
2E German National Champion 2020
#556545
I'd only say yes to new keywords, if we come up with a very good way to utilize them.

Otherwise I'd rather see some good ideas utilizing the existing keywords cuz at least half of them haven't been of any importance in ages.
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Director of First Edition
By MidnightLich (Charlie Plaine)
 - Director of First Edition
 -  
Trailblazer
#556561
Keywords are awesome and we should use them more. They are very low cost in terms of barrier to entry and cognitive load for players. I helped put Chef in the game for these reasons (and because it was such good flavor for the expansion it was in.)
monty42 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:57 am I'd only say yes to new keywords, if we come up with a very good way to utilize them.

Otherwise I'd rather see some good ideas utilizing the existing keywords cuz at least half of them haven't been of any importance in ages.
I actually agree with this too. I think 2E design can both support existing keywords and create new ones where it makes sense. But making frivolous ones that don't have depth (and won't lead to anything more than a tiny handful of people with it) should be avoided.

And if you hate keywords, don't fear: there are plenty of people like you. After all, I didn't get to add the Beverage or Food keywords I wanted. ;)

-crp
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#556577
Harbinger comes to mind as one of the worst Keywords in CC's 2E game history. The game already has a bunch of these dilemma's and to add that keyword. Thank goodness they didn't go with plan A for that set, that would've been a disaster. [Bar]
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By TyKajada (Alexander Schmitz)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#556582
.
I want this new keyword, I always thought would open up a great can of worms:

Seed. (At start of your first turn you may download this event and place it in your core. If you do, discard an amount of cards from hand equal to that event's cost)

:D
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By Danny (Daniel Giddings)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Wanderer
2E European Continental Quarter-Finalist 2019
2E British National Second Runner-Up 2019
#556590
Cmdr Xym wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:50 am
StateofSTCCG wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:16 pm Harbinger comes to mind as one of the worst Keywords in CC's 2E game history.
100% accurate.

I don't think the issues of its badness lie with the keyword itself, but with the support the keyword received (which with Harbinger is almost none) - there are (so far) only two cards that interact with Harbinger dilemmas, and even then one of them (Jane Taylor) works against them.

Keywords without interaction or support are just bold flavour text.
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Ambassador
 - Ambassador
 -  
Legate
#556591
I'd like more cards with the Miracle Working keyword (is it Recall?).

I think I would support any number of unloaded keywords being added, the only cost I see is if later on designers want to do something different with a word that already exists in the wrong place.

But yes, more cards that use keywords would be great.
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By Enabran
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
2E World Quarter-Finalist 2019
#556596
Undersupported Keywords? How about Glinn? It exists since Set 1 and has only 3 cards using it. Similar to Praetor, Senator, General...

New Keywords - hmm - new affiliations are coming so:
Ogla, Nistrim, Halik, Oglamar, Relora, Mostral, Hobii, Pommar.
Phage.
Alpha-Hirogen, Beta-Hirogen, Hunter.
Primate, Reptilian, Arboreal, Aquatic, Insectoid.
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By GooeyChewie (Nathan Miracle)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
Architect
#556601
In my mind, there are three types of keywords.

Some keywords, like Harbinger or Ritual, exist to unify certain mechanics. Once you know what that text in italics does, you can skip over it on future readings. Technically Archival Drone has four lines of text; I only read three words (Drone. Interlink: Anthropology.) and I know exactly what he does. These keywords don't necessarily need a lot of support cards (Interlink literally has 0) to justify their existence, but they do need a mechanic. I can't say there are any such keywords I would like to see introduced; it'd be more a matter of identifying a proposed mechanic that could be simplified by using a keyword.

Other keywords, like Capture or Infiltration, reference mechanics without actually doing anything. If a card has the Capture keyword, you know it will likely have something to do with taking an opponent's personnel, most likely into your brig. These keywords replaced 1E's "X-related card" wording, making it much easier to reference such cards. Similar to the mechanic-unifying keywords, I think we have the bases covered unless we add some specific idea to the game (such as with Holoprograms).

The final type of keyword is the flavorful keyword, such as Host or MACO. These keywords don't do anything on their own. They represent some manner of Trek-sense and other cards reference these keywords. On these, I agree with Charlie. There's very little downside to these keywords, especially on personnel. I agree with Enabran that new affiliation could (and should) bring their own keywords. Other than those, I can't think of any particular keywords that I would want which would not also require quite a few old card updates. That said, I wouldn't have thought of Chef either until I saw it, and in hindsight it seems so obvious.

There are several keywords I would have liked to have seen, but which would require a lot of updates (or even outright reworking of the entire game) at this point:

Chula - 'a dilemma whose title begins with "Chula"' is so clunky compared to what could have been with the keyword.
Clown - Same idea as Chula, it'd be nice to have an official group on these.
other dilemma keywords - A bit vague I know, but I would have liked to have seen dilemmas have keywords which represent the kinds of threats they pose. Examples could include "anomaly" or "creature." Even existing keywords, such as "Assassin" or "Q" could have made dilemmas much more interesting.
Nagus. - Like Kai, there's only a handful but they're incredibly important to the affiliation. Zek, Gint, and specific versions of Quark, Brunt and Rom could have it.
Officer: Rank. - Officer is a weird skill, in that most skills are things you do or know, whereas officer is something you [/i]are[/i]. I would have preferred it be a keyword, with the associated rank, for captain level and above to keep from getting too into the weeds. Ranks could include (non-exhaustive): Captain, Admiral, General, Thot, Gul, Legate, Colonel, DaiMon, Commander (Romulan equivalent of Captain).
Telepathic. - Similar to Officer, but replacing Telepathy and without any differentiation.
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
#556615
Danny wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:22 am I don't think the issues of its badness lie with the keyword itself, but with the support the keyword received (which with Harbinger is almost none) - there are (so far) only two cards that interact with Harbinger dilemmas, and even then one of them (Jane Taylor) works against them.

Keywords without interaction or support are just bold flavour text.
*sigh*

Yeah. We had some ideas about where else we could go with that, but mainly now it feels like a dud. Nathan's right in that it was meant to be a mechanic in and of itself, interactive with the opponent. Trying to manipulate their game slightly. The support came from conceptual stuff that we wanted to build on, but wasn't the main thrust.

I do have an idea that I might try to explore at some point. Maybe I'll be shouted down (likely) or maybe it ends up being like Nathan Samuels. Now, it still kind of feels like Persistent did to me originally. It does something on its own and there are support carrots, but not enough to make it really worthwhile. Persistent just has more support because it was a bigger set. And after consistent plugs, the Borg have, from what I've heard, an interesting relationship there.

Generally yes, but I won’t be there!

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